Wireless & Transparent - New FIE Decision for 2007

[Timacheff]

After the wireless tests performed in Torino last fall, the FIE in the recent executive committee meeting has decided to proceed with the technology as well as transparent masks -- at least in part -- at upcoming events GP and WC events beginning this spring. The decision is as follows:

The wireless apparatus at three weapons from the Ukrainian
Company STM was homologated by the SEMI Commission. Further to
the tests achieved on 4 October 2006 in Turin, the following junior
competitions were held with the wireless apparatus:

• Kiev, women’s epee, September 2006,
• Bratislava, women’s epee and foil, October 2006
• Laupheim, men’s epee, November 2006
• Burgsteinfurt, men’s foil, December 2006.

The Executive Committee thus decided to make compulsory (from
the table of 32 onwards), from the 1st of March 2007, the use of
the wireless apparatus at Grand Prix competitions at foil, as well as
at World Championships, and optional at Grand Prix competitions at
epee.

This technological innovation going together with the use of
transparent mask, any organizing federation of Grand Prix, whose
national fencers will wear masks with transparent visor (at all
stages of the competition), will be exempted from paying
expenses (except for the accommodation of the technicians)
linked to the use of the wireless apparatus.

More information is available in the official FIE letter/announcement that can be found at this URL:

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...2-07%20ANG.pdf

[erooMynohtnA]

I hate you, FIE.

[DHCJr]

Whose going to pay for the masks? What if one of a countries fencers doesn't want to wear a visor mask? RR, I mean the Executive Committee tried to get visor masks required for Epee and Foil and twice they have gotten shot down. Seems they are trying to do an end around. At least it isn't trying to require all fencers, just the host country.

It used to be you could buy enough machines and reels for a World Cup or World Championship and you would have something to show for it. You would have equipment for a National Circuit. Now you can't buy the machines, you can only rent the machines from one company (do I hear monopoly) and you have to pay to bring over their technicians.

Also, I talked to Dan late last month. He hasn't seen the test results from these new machines and he can't imangine how they could have followed the rules (no over-air transmissions).

This is getting interesting. Another episode in this soap opera.

[rcmatthews]

Does that than mean that visor masks are not required any longer, but only encouraged through the use of monetary incentive? Or is it that the incentive is to force the wearing of the lasks at all levels of the competition rather than just in the 32?

[FAMOUS_TV_EXECUTIVE]

Oh MY GOD! FINALLY!

I CANNOT WAIT TO PUT THIS ON MY TELEVISION CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!

[Timacheff]

While I understand the obstacles and arguments regarding wireless, I must say that, as a photographer, I have found the transparent masks to be a positive thing for the "image" of fencing. Being able to see fencers' faces can provide some great displays of emotion and intensity that I would otherwise be unable to capture.

Here is the rest of the info from the FIE letter, which may help answer some of your questions:

The FIE will pay directly the STM company.

Should the national fencers of the organising federation not wear the mask with transparent visor (at all stages of the competition), the expenses linked to the use of the wireless apparatus will be at the charge of the organizing federation.

These financial measures are applicable to Grand Prix competitions at both foil and epee.

The organizing federations facing difficulties to get hold of masks with transparent visor must urgently contact the FIE. The FIE will lend the amount of the order, which will have to be reimbursed by the organising federation at a date to be settled.

[DHCJr]

Does that than mean that visor masks are not required any longer, but only encouraged through the use of monetary incentive? Or is it that the incentive is to force the wearing of the lasks at all levels of the competition rather than just in the 32?

Did you notice which events they were talking about? They were not talking about Sabre. There has not been a change in the requirements for Visor masks for Sabre. They are still required at the World Championships and the larger World Cups.

This is so RR can get around the ban on the requirement for Foil/Epee.

[DHCJr]

While I understand the obstacles and arguments regarding wireless, I must say that, as a photographer, I have found the transparent masks to be a positive thing for the "image" of fencing. Being able to see fencers' faces can provide some great displays of emotion and intensity that I would otherwise be unable to capture. [/I]

But this is supposedly for television. Yes for photography it is better, but even there you can't use flash, which limits it somewhat. I watch the Olympics and I didn't see that much more with the visor masks on television.

Look at Football, does it hurt the sport that more and more players are using visors that are tinted? You can't see their eyes. You can't see their emotions or intesity.

But still it is the countries that pay. A lot of the countries will turn around like the FIE and charge the fencers. If you could actually buy the equipment and not just from one company, I wouldn't be so against wireless.

[piste off]

...I must say that, as a photographer, I have found the transparent masks to be a positive thing for the "image" of fencing. Being able to see fencers' faces can provide some great displays of emotion and intensity that I would otherwise be unable to capture. [/I]

Before I read this, I would have never agreed to the fact that the transparent masks add anything from a marketing standpoint.

My argument/feeling was that the camera (I was mainly thinking TV) could never capture much of the fencer's face during the action (especially if the focus is on both fencers) and that it was far more powerful to see a masked fencer pull his mask up or lift it between points to see the emotion and intensity.

It just seems more mysterious and interesting that way. All the bouts that I have seen televised using lexan masks made the fencers seem like scared kids visiting SpongeBob SquarePants (... "who lives in a pineapple under the sea").

Considering the source (you), I am more open minded to the idea. Can you show us some examples - your work or others?

Rick

[piste off]

But this is supposedly for television. Yes for photography it is better, but even there you can't use flash, which limits it somewhat. I watch the Olympics and I didn't see that much more with the visor masks on television.

Look at Football, does it hurt the sport that more and more players are using visors that are tinted? You can't see their eyes. You can't see their emotions or intesity.

You are absolutely right.

Rick

[Timacheff]

Television was certainly a bigger factor and has more clout than still photography at big events, but the photography does tend to be generally more accessible and readily available than TV -- which the FIE realizes.

With clear visors, it's better that we don't use flashes ... they would reflect.

As for examples, here are a couple. I have other that are more action-oriented, but I grabbed these two quickly. Others are scattered around the site:

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...22&image_id=59
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...2&image_id=183

Some fencers are now using the transparent masks as part of their tactical efforts in fencing ... such as looking one way when they are about to execute an action in another. So there are some interesting psychological factors that are beginning to become integrated with the use of the mask that assume the opponent is paying attention...

[Timacheff]

Here's one more that's action:

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...2&image_id=188

[DHCJr]

Television was certainly a bigger factor and has more clout than still photography at big events, but the photography does tend to be generally more accessible and readily available than TV -- which the FIE realizes.

With clear visors, it's better that we don't use flashes ... they would reflect.

As for examples, here are a couple. I have other that are more action-oriented, but I grabbed these two quickly. Others are scattered around the site:

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...22&image_id=59
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...2&image_id=183

Some fencers are now using the transparent masks as part of their tactical efforts in fencing ... such as looking one way when they are about to execute an action in another. So there are some interesting psychological factors that are beginning to become integrated with the use of the mask that assume the opponent is paying attention...

Thank you for proving my point for me. I was going to mention the first picture you listed. It was in Issue 56 of Escrime. If you look at the last 2 issues of Escrime including the cover what pictures best show emotion. The ones without the mask. Of all the shots in these 2 magazines the first one above is the only one with visor mask that you can see any emotion. The second best one has a regular mask.

What do the 2 pictures above have in common? They are not action shots. They are posed shots. Let's suggest this wear regular mask when they compete, but have visor masks when they want to pose for a picture.

Your last paragraph is fine. If someone wants to wear one, go for it. But why require it.

I have seen the action shots in Escrime and I haven't been impressed by what you can see with the visor mask. I like piste off would like to see some non-posed shots.

P.S. I just saw your second post. That one does show better. Most pictures I see are like the one at the top right of this page.

[Timacheff]

Depending on the situation, I like both types of masks. For transparent masks, often when my camera is adjusted for action shots and the face behind the mask doesn't expose brightly enough to get much out of it; then I have to work with it in post-production. But I do sometimes shoot just to get mask/action shots and, if the light is correct, it turns out well.

Since you commented about it ... I did a little research to find, specifically, action-oriented shots with transparent masks. I found some others that I could probably edit a bit more to make the face more visible, but these are probably a good start. These are all from Torino and Korea in 2006. I'm always interested in how everyone likes (or not) the shots or how you think they might be taken differently:

http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...47&image_id=10
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...972&image_id=9
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...579&image_id=5
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...47&image_id=11
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...79&image_id=13
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...73&image_id=18
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...69&image_id=16
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...971&image_id=7
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...72&image_id=13
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...947&image_id=8
http://www.printroom.com/ViewGallery...47&image_id=22

[bigdawg2121]

Actually I think that in the case of the wireless scoring they circumvent the transmissions of signals through air thing by making the fencers the machines. The scoring apparatus is the thing on the back of the fencers' masks. The lights on the mask are the official lights everything else is an extension light. You can buy the equipment if you want and the technical documentation is available on the StM website.

[oiuyt]

Actually I think that in the case of the wireless scoring they circumvent the transmissions of signals through air thing by making the fencers the machines. The scoring apparatus is the thing on the back of the fencers' masks. The lights on the mask are the official lights everything else is an extension light. You can buy the equipment if you want and the technical documentation is available on the StM website.

Could you give a link to the technical documentation to which you refer? I just went through what they have on their website and I failed to find it. Found a document about how to set up the system, how to troubleshoot it, etc., but nothing that explains how the systems attached to two epeeists communicate well enough to successfully implement the 40ms blocking time.

-B

[bigdawg2121]

Umm I'll look for it. I'm gonna have to be honest I've only ever seen the data for saber and that was at least 4 months ago. I assume something is available though.

[rcmatthews]

Did you notice which events they were talking about? They were not talking about Sabre. There has not been a change in the requirements for Visor masks for Sabre. They are still required at the World Championships and the larger World Cups.

This is so RR can get around the ban on the requirement for Foil/Epee.

Yeah, I guess i just saw world cups and extended it to all events.

At any rate, as for the spectator aspect of visor masks, i dont see it. When I fence someone who is wearing one, I pretty much only see their eyes and maybe a little bit of their nose. I wonder how much of the fencer's face someone watching from far away can see. Not to mention the fact that lost of the time the glare off the visor probably obscurs the view anyway.

[Army Fencer]

Well, it looks like they're trying to push the video reffing, too. I'm happy about that.

[oso97]

Well, it looks like they're trying to push the video reffing, too. I'm happy about that.

Epee is probably the weapon where it makes the most sense, too.