02-07-2007, 11:58 PM
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#1 | | Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 38
| Would you remove scratches from a Lexan window?
Okay, this is as much an ethical question as a technical one, so here goes:
For woodworking, I use MicroMesh, which is an abrasive used to remove very fine scratches from a surface and create a smooth, glossy sheen. It was invented to remove scratches from airplane windows.
The question - if you had a mask that had a lexan window, and there were light surface scratches (not deep gouges, nothing will fix those AFAIK), would you consider using something like Micormesh to remove them, or would you insist on replacing the window? (For sake of argument, the window has been used for, say, three months, and has a date stamp within the last 15 months.)
Would you repair, or replace? If it was not your own mask, repair or replace?
My gut feeling - if it's not mine, then I would insist on replacement. But I'm not sure I would be correct in doing so, just extra cautious.
Thoughts? | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
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02-08-2007, 05:14 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London UK
Posts: 570
| i would throw the mask out and buy an LP one!
Ours are the only ones with an easily and cheaply replaceble scratch layer to prevent the main layer of Lexan from ever getting scratched!
Alex | |
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02-08-2007, 05:55 AM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,059
| Best.Product.Plug.Ever. | |
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02-08-2007, 08:04 AM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MD
Posts: 964
| Appendix A to the Material rules, section 2 includes the following statement:
"The polycarbonate transparent visor (Lexan) must have a minimum thickness of 3.0 mm, and a protective layer against damage to the outside surface is recommended."
Based on this, unless you were able to measured the panel thickness (and I wouldn't assume uniform thickness throughout the entire panel) then it wouldn't be unreasonable to err on the side of caution and insisting on replacement.
Personally I would lean toward replacement even if the panel thickness did exceed 3.0 mm - if nothing else it might encourage people to buy masks that comes with the recommended protective layer on the outside, preferably one that can easily be replaced (such as LP). | 
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02-08-2007, 09:08 AM
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#5 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,948
| From a technical standpoint, I don't see any problem with resurfacing the lexan with micromesh. It really wouldn't affect thickness or strength. However, from a paranoid just-in-case standpoint, I wouldn't do it. There would always be that thought in the back of my mind that I wouldn't want a saber blade sharing. | |
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02-08-2007, 03:47 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,137
| I'd refinish it.
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If you give a man a fire, he is warm for the night.
If you set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.
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02-09-2007, 01:48 AM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I have no home
Posts: 1,855
| I'd refinish it...also [gasp] I'd just go ahead and buy the LP scratch shield for use with my non-LP visor mask. A little trimming (since LP has the biggest shield) and badda-bing you have yourself your very own scratch shield!!!
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I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
"Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West
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02-09-2007, 01:44 PM
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#8 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,884
| That assumes they have the same curvature... | |
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02-09-2007, 02:04 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,227
| Quote:
Originally Posted by KD5MDK  That assumes they have the same curvature... | well if they don't you can always soak the lexan in acetone to soften it up a bit.
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the will of all things is to continue to be as they are | |
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02-09-2007, 02:25 PM
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#10 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,403
| Quote:
Originally Posted by KD5MDK That assumes they have the same curvature... | The curature wouldn't matter for the scratch shield. It is a film like they have to put on your car windows except they are clear. You could make your own. The material is readily available. You would need to cut it to fit.
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Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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02-09-2007, 05:36 PM
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#11 | | Scrub
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Miami
Posts: 2,453
| Quote:
Originally Posted by keith well if they don't you can always soak the lexan in acetone to soften it up a bit. | Is this safe? Does it weaken the lexan? | |
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02-09-2007, 05:55 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,227
| Quote:
Originally Posted by HDG Is this safe? Does it weaken the lexan? | course it's safe.
If the lexan is not softening enough it sometimes helps to warm it with a blowtorch immediately after removing it from the acetone bath
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the will of all things is to continue to be as they are | |
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02-09-2007, 06:57 PM
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#13 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,587
| Better yet, while it's still in the acetone bath.
-B
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02-09-2007, 08:00 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I have no home
Posts: 1,855
| In actuality the scratch shield from LP is a reasonably thin straight piece of clear plastic that manages to not really affect the clarity of your visor. It bends and is easily cut with scissors or an exacto knife.
__________________
I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
"Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West
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02-13-2007, 12:47 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: IL
Posts: 398
| is the window conductive?
if not, wouldn't this give it an advantage over the metal masks? | |
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02-13-2007, 12:57 AM
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#16 | | Madness?
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,948
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookeit is the window conductive?
if not, wouldn't this give it an advantage over the metal masks? | Yes, that's why they're mandatory for saber, so there's no advantage given to just one fencer. Allegedly. | |
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02-13-2007, 12:33 PM
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#17 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,403
| Quote:
Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA Yes, that's why they're mandatory for saber, so there's no advantage given to just one fencer. Allegedly. | Well now RR is again pushing it for Foil and Epee so there is an advantage there.
They are required for sabre, but are all the visors the same size. Someone with an LP mask has an advantage as those are the biggest visors.
__________________
Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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02-13-2007, 12:58 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Live in Maine...Fence in New Hampshire
Posts: 1,088
| This thread got me to wondering...are all polycarbonate visors Lexan brand, or is it just the whole using the "kleenex" in place of "facial tissue" thing? If they are all Lexan, then why? Why not use one of the higher-end polycarbs which have less name recognition but better durability? | |
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02-13-2007, 01:12 PM
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#19 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,403
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old This thread got me to wondering...are all polycarbonate visors Lexan brand, or is it just the whole using the "kleenex" in place of "facial tissue" thing? If they are all Lexan, then why? Why not use one of the higher-end polycarbs which have less name recognition but better durability? | The rules state that the visors must be made of Polycarbonate (Lexan). Whether they have to be made by Lexan, I'm not sure. It is interesting to note for CE-2 masks (FIE) the standard is for transparent plastic or mineral glass. No mention of Lexan. It could be like what you said about kleenex.
__________________
Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
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02-13-2007, 03:28 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Live in Maine...Fence in New Hampshire
Posts: 1,088
| Quote:
Originally Posted by DHCJr The rules state that the visors must be made of Polycarbonate (Lexan). Whether they have to be made by Lexan, I'm not sure. It is interesting to note for CE-2 masks (FIE) the standard is for transparent plastic or mineral glass. No mention of Lexan. It could be like what you said about kleenex. | Yeah...it's a little like specifying a "carbonated cola beverage" then saying the rules state you have to use Pepsi...and Coke simply isn't allowed. Another example is Acrylite vs. Plexiglas. Acrylite is by far the preferred material by discriminating consumers, but Plexiglas is the name people know. | |
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