Rules question: Anullment of touch?

[jBirch]

Maybe. What did we decide?

James.

[KD5MDK]

I have the notion that the thread felt the touch stood, but I can't find the thread and it's driving me nuts. It happened in either Washington (Seattle/nearabouts) or British Columbia. Does anyone else remember this thread?

[DHCJr]

The rules require 15cm of insulation. We allow less than that under the theory that it can't possibly provide an advantage (and generally actually represents a disadvantage) to the fencer with such a foil. Where in the rules does it specify that the 15-18th cm of the blade may not be insulated? Point that out and I'll retract my statement regarding the legality of 18cm of tape and that the armorers (mostly, some referees as well) erronenously like to cite this as an example of a problematical rule (and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there were such a rule, I'm merely unaware of it).
-B

Your point about of is good.

I was just pointing out you had made a typo and reversed the standard thinking on M.13. As far as where it says you can’t have tape over 15 cm, M.13. If you come up with tape over 15 cm, all I have to do is point to M.13 and you can’t complain. If you come up with tape less than 15 cm and I let it pass are you going to complain? Let me give another example. Suppose you come up with a lame’ with 7 ohms resistance over an area about the size of a silver dollar and I let it pass are you going to complain? Suppose the next person in line throws their bag on the table knocking over my meters and starts cussing me out for taking so long and they have an area the size of a quarter that has 6 ohms resistance. Am I required to pass it?

The FIE appears to prefer rules that give them flexibility. Take for example, M.27 do you know of any Foil mask that would pass? How about the new M.25. Does that mean if one fencer is wearing Addidas and one Allstar they would fail? Suppose that one fencer’s mom wanted to sponsor their child and got a patch that was legal according to the publicity code could they wear it if the other fencers in the team didn’t have one. I know this could not happen to you since Sabreist are not allowed to have logos on their arms. I have noticed a number of Sabre lame’ with the club logo on the arm, which is illegal. If I am lenient will they complain?

[Philistine]

I have the notion that the thread felt the touch stood, but I can't find the thread and it's driving me nuts. It happened in either Washington (Seattle/nearabouts) or British Columbia. Does anyone else remember this thread?

Thread

--Philistine

[oiuyt]

It wasn't a typo, and I was very aware that I had reversed the common order.

The rule specifies that the barrel and top 15cm of blade must be fully insulated. A foil with 18cm of tape complies with that rule. I admit the possibility that there's ANOTHER rule which prohibits the insulation in the 15-18cm range, but I am unaware of it. Absent such a prohibition, 18cm of tape should be legal. Certainly m.13 doesn't prohibit it. It doesn't specify a maximum of 15cm or exactly 15cm, it merely says that 15cm must be insulated.

(for reference, and so other people don't need to go dig up exact language)

(h) The insulation of the barrel, the blade and the grip
m.13 The body of the barrel and the foil blade for a length of 15 cm from the barrel, as well as the pommel or the rear extremity of the handle, must be entirely covered with insulating material (insulating tape, gummed paper, Sellotape, plastic material or varnish).
The flange of the sleeve which slides in the base of the point and within which is fixed the pointe d’arrêt must be of a smaller diameter than the insulated head of the pointe d’arrêt itself, to obviate an accidental contact being made with the conductive jacket when a touch is made.

-B

[DHCJr]

A good point. It is not just this rule that I would love to see cleaned up.

[arc]

Having just read through this whole thread, I realize first, that lawyers have got nothing on fencers, and that second, as a lawyer, I now see why I don't spend more time on the forums ...

[Inquartata]

Objection. Counsel is testifying. Call for a mistrial.

[jBirch]

Objection. Counsel is testifying. Call for a mistrial.

Actually, shouldn't that simply be a call for the testimonial to be stricken from the record and not considered as evidence?

If you appeal a touch, that doesn't mean you're entitled to re-fight the entire bout.

James.

[Inquartata]

Always ask for the highest possible reward and negotiate down.

[jBirch]

"Law: the art of truth through persuasion"

James.

[Inquartata]

Once Law was sitting on the bench,
And Mercy knelt a-weeping.
"Clear out!" he cried, "disordered wench!
Nor come before me creeping.
Upon your knees if you appear,
'Tis plain your have no standing here."

Then Justice came. His Honor cried:
"Your status? — devil seize you!"
"Amica curiae," she replied —
"Friend of the court, so please you."
"Begone!" he shouted — "there's the door —
I never saw your face before!"