where is the Operations Manual?

[Chafunkta]

Where can I find a copy of the USFA Operations Manual? I checked www.usfencing.org and www.fencingofficials.org and couldn't find it. So does anyone know where I can get a copy of the current Operations Manual?

[KD5MDK]

http://oldsite.usfencing.org/Forms/OpsMan.pdf

Note that it is from 2000 and so out of date it's pretty much useless when it comes to making decisions.

[oiuyt]

The Ops Manual is close to being rereleased in updated form. It's possible the old version (circa 2000) is not currently available on the USFA website. A quick Google search yields a couple of hits, including the old USFA website (still available in a non-maintained form).

http://oldsite.usfencing.org/Forms/OpsMan.pdf

-B

[Chafunkta]

Alright, I thought the answer to my question would be in the Operations Manual, but I can't find it.

Can you give out USFA ratings for a tournament that consists of one big pool (24 fencers) of 3 touch bouts?



{The teach-a-man-to-fish question} Where can I find a list of formats that the USFA allows/sanctions/will give ratings for?

[DJ Apostrophe]

Alright, I thought the answer to my question would be in the Operations Manual, but I can't find it.

Can you give out USFA ratings for a tournament that consists of one big pool (24 fencers) of 3 touch bouts?



{The teach-a-man-to-fish question} Where can I find a list of formats that the USFA allows/sanctions/will give ratings for?

Random question:

Why three touch bouts?

You won't save much time... most of your time is lost in hooking up / unhooking...

you MIGHT save a minute a bout in epee, 45 seconds in foil, and 30 seconds in sabre...

how many strips are you using?

-w

[oiuyt]

{The teach-a-man-to-fish question} Where can I find a list of formats that the USFA allows/sanctions/will give ratings for?

AFAIK there is no such list.

It's up to the local division to decide what they will sanction and submit for classification changes. In order for classifications to be earned they must be certified in writing to the National Office. In order to award classifications the tournaments must be regularly schedule and adequate notice must be given. "Academic" (contests where "the number of touches scored is not the sole criterion for victory in a bout") competitions may not be rated.

While it's not explicitly stated anywhere (of which I'm aware), and perhaps not a good policy, my understanding is that, so long as there's plenty of adequate knowledge of the format distributed in advance (and I don't mean at the meeting 5 minutes before pools start) that pretty much anything is allowable if the division deems it to have been run in a manner so as to justify the awarding of the classifications (obvious exception being the "academic" rule mentioned above).

-B

[Chafunkta]

Random question:

Why three touch bouts?

You won't save much time... most of your time is lost in hooking up / unhooking...

you MIGHT save a minute a bout in epee, 45 seconds in foil, and 30 seconds in sabre...

how many strips are you using?

-w

Good question. I don't know. You'd have to ask the real division reps.

As a fencer, I would much rather 5 point bouts.

[dekko]

AFAIK there is no such list.

It's up to the local division to decide what they will sanction and submit for classification changes. In order for classifications to be earned they must be certified in writing to the National Office. In order to award classifications the tournaments must be regularly schedule and adequate notice must be given. "Academic" (contests where "the number of touches scored is not the sole criterion for victory in a bout") competitions may not be rated.

While it's not explicitly stated anywhere (of which I'm aware), and perhaps not a good policy, my understanding is that, so long as there's plenty of adequate knowledge of the format distributed in advance (and I don't mean at the meeting 5 minutes before pools start) that pretty much anything is allowable if the division deems it to have been run in a manner so as to justify the awarding of the classifications (obvious exception being the "academic" rule mentioned above).

-B

Likely still true but it used to be any format was legal as long as 2 basic criteria were followed:

1. Advanced notice of format to participants, as mentioned above.

2. At least 50% promotion from one round to the next.

As long as those are followed there is no limit to the formats that can be used.

Good luck!!

[DHCJr]

AFAIK there is no such list.

It's up to the local division to decide what they will sanction and submit for classification changes. In order for classifications to be earned they must be certified in writing to the National Office. In order to award classifications the tournaments must be regularly schedule and adequate notice must be given. "Academic" (contests where "the number of touches scored is not the sole criterion for victory in a bout") competitions may not be rated.

While it's not explicitly stated anywhere (of which I'm aware), and perhaps not a good policy, my understanding is that, so long as there's plenty of adequate knowledge of the format distributed in advance (and I don't mean at the meeting 5 minutes before pools start) that pretty much anything is allowable if the division deems it to have been run in a manner so as to justify the awarding of the classifications (obvious exception being the "academic" rule mentioned above).

-B

I am not so sure this is true. Check out T.30 Pools are defined as being 5 touch, 3 minute duration.

[oiuyt]

I am not so sure this is true. Check out T.30 Pools are defined as being 5 touch, 3 minute duration.

Reasonable point (I thought you were supposed to stick to the M rules!).

Of course t.30 also defines direct elimination bouts in a way that doesn't hold for vet events (such as Vet Worlds). So clearly documents outside of the rulebook can modify the allowable bout formats, including at the FIE level.

-B

[DHCJr]

Reasonable point (I thought you were supposed to stick to the M rules!).

Of course t.30 also defines direct elimination bouts in a way that doesn't hold for vet events (such as Vet Worlds). So clearly documents outside of the rulebook can modify the allowable bout formats, including at the FIE level.

-B

I also help organize events, so I have to know the O rules also. I have been messing up on the T rules so often, that I thought I better work on them. Because of a problem at LBI last year, I have been studying the Athletes Handbook also.

Yes, but these 'modifications' are either in a document published by the USFA or the FIE. In the case of number of touches the Athletes Handbook has the information. I have not seen anything in any USFA manual that says a local organizatiion can change the number of touches.

In fact, in the Athletes Handbook 2.10.2 does allow for a 24 pool format. It only require the pools be near equal and 5, 6, 7 or more.