London World Cup results?

[bjacobs]

Anyone know what happened at the London World Cup this weekend (senior women's sabre)?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Still going on. Prelims today, finals tomorrow!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Finals today: USA goes 1-2.

Mariel Zagunis beats Becca Ward for the gold, Sada Jacobson loses to a French fencer in the 8 (I think). No word on final placement yet for the other members of the American squad.

The good news for the American duo: They get to stay 1-2 on the FIE rankings, and are given giant, super-heavy crystal decanters as trophies.

The bad news: they're staying over in France for a training camp and second competition in Orleans, and will have to lug their overweight but fragile trophies around with them until February 11.

The challenges of life on the road.....

[nahouw]

http://www.fie.ch/Competitions/Resul...70E603B02C37F5

[Inquartata]

The bad news: they're staying over in France for a training camp and second competition in Orleans, and will have to lug their overweight but fragile trophies around with them until February 11.

The challenges of life on the road.....

What, Fed Ex doesn't ship from France?

It's a wasteland, that country!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

In France, the sign at the FedEx office door reads: "Absolutely, Positively....Someone Else's Problem"

[clagen]

I thought that was Royal Mail's official customer service code?

[oiuyt]

Wow!

5 Americans in the top 8.

2 more in the 16, 3 more in the 32, and the last 2 in the 64.

With the exception of a DFL Belgian, every fencer who failed to make it out of pools was GBR (Brits also had 2 L16's, 1 L32, 6 L64's (excluding those who were eliminated out of pools))

-B

[rcmatthews]

The bad news: they're staying over in France for a training camp and second competition in Orleans, and will have to lug their overweight but fragile trophies around with them until February 11.

Yeah man am I glad I dont have to do that!

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Yeah, you're overseas, and it's all: "Cool! I get a trophy!" and then you look at the gilded rose with a 24 inch stem in a big glass tube filled with loose quartz baubles and topped with an absurdly-easy-to-knock-off lid and think: "OK, now HOW am I getting this back home in one piece?"

As the Good Dr. Smith used to say back in the 60's: "The Pain...the Pain."

[rustica]

I am amazed at the Women's schedule this year. I shudder to think about next year!! Yes, there is a camp between London and Orleans, another camp between Foggia and Algiers, and yet another camp between Hanoi and Tianjin. Wonder why they're coming home at all in February; after all, there is Budapest near the end of the month.

I guess I'm cranky about this because there is no way a non-supported (family or other funding) can do this. If you have to work or go to school, you're pretty much out of the running. I know I couldn't take off that much time when I was in high school What about the college girls and their competitions in February and March? Of course, now that I look at it, Algiers is the same weekend as NCAA championships. Choices must be made, but who is making the choice?

[nahouw]

I am amazed at the Women's schedule this year. I shudder to think about next year!! Yes, there is a camp between London and Orleans, another camp between Foggia and Algiers, and yet another camp between Hanoi and Tianjin. Wonder why they're coming home at all in February; after all, there is Budapest near the end of the month.

It is better and cheaper to stay and have a camp when there are back-to-back weekend competitions. If you didn't stay, you would have the extra expense of another airfare plus all the effects of jet lag....

[eac]

Rustica: Tennis, I think, has the same problem. I think most sports where you don't get paid except at the highest level have that problem. It comes with the territory. Would I like it if anyone that good could fence for free? Sure. I don't know how it's going to happen, though, given the current US gov't attempt at cutting costs. The French, as I understand it, do pay for their national teams' travel and training, but the French have overall a more socialistic system than we do.

[edew]

I'm sure the top fencers (not just in the WS group) who are also students at elite colleges get funding from the schools to attend these events. I remember hearing that Derek Snyder, when he attended Notre Dame, got a full ride plus all trips for International competitions in Europe paid for. So I think at the very least, Mariel has that deal, as well as many of the other collegiate fencers. Those who aren't in college anymore, I'm not sure where their funding is coming from.

[teacup]

I'm sure the top fencers (not just in the WS group) who are also students at elite colleges get funding from the schools to attend these events. I remember hearing that Derek Snyder, when he attended Notre Dame, got a full ride plus all trips for International competitions in Europe paid for. So I think at the very least, Mariel has that deal, as well as many of the other collegiate fencers. Those who aren't in college anymore, I'm not sure where their funding is coming from.

Maybe some universities fund students to travel but not all schools have money for fencing and not all athletes are able to afford or attend elite schools. If they are in an elite school they may need to compete in NCAA events or they may be unable to lose too much class or work time to travel.

Also since a student is probably not going to make a living as a professional fencer in the US, the decision of which higher education institution may not be based on which one will pay fencing expenses.

Juniors and cadets must pay the majority of their own expenses to travel internationally. Of course not all fencers are fabulously wealthy but they must have enough money to travel internationally to obtain points. That is just the way it is. And the necessity to travel to more international events is increasing each year.

I am not diminishing the accomplishments of currently high ranked fencers, but the reality is that fencers must privately fund the majority of tournament expenses and if they don't have money, they will not be able to compete in as many events as someone with unlimited funds.

If the US really wants the best fencers on all of the junior, cadet, senior and vets teams, then the top 8 or so athletics of each age group should be funded to go to a specific number of national and international events but as we all know the money is just not there.

This is also probably the main reason why many US fencers do not make the transition from juniors to seniors. Senior fencers need to be able to support themselves or have a job that gives them the income and freedom to travel, otherwise they cannot afford to compete compared with someone who is independently wealthy. The better athlete does not always win in this system.

None of this is new but it is reality.

[silver2e]

...I'm not sure where their funding is coming from.

It's coming from credit cards, mostly...

[nahouw]

And the necessity to travel to more international events is increasing each year.

I am not diminishing the accomplishments of currently high ranked fencers, but the reality is that fencers must privately fund the majority of tournament expenses and if they don't have money, they will not be able to compete in as many events as someone with unlimited funds.

If the US really wants the best fencers on all of the junior, cadet, senior and vets teams, then the top 8 or so athletics of each age group should be funded to go to a specific number of national and international events but as we all know the money is just not there.

This is also probably the main reason why many US fencers do not make the transition from juniors to seniors. Senior fencers need to be able to support themselves or have a job that gives them the income and freedom to travel, otherwise they cannot afford to compete compared with someone who is independently wealthy. The better athlete does not always win in this system.

First of all, there are no international points for veterans. Second of all, only the X highest events count for points (depends on weapon) -- you can go to all the events you want, but only the X highest count. You can be a fencer like Pavel Kolobkov, go to 3 events and win them, and you are on the team. Or, you can be like a fencer I knew several years ago who went to all 18 Senior World Cup events that year and only made 1 top 64. Third of all, of course, there is no money to fund the top 8, however, the top 8 are partially there due to their results in the X amount of national competitions that count in the ranking. The Juniors have more opportunities to better ther score in this regard, since in this total the best X is taken from all junior national competitions and all senior national competitions.

If a fencer is necessitated to go to more international competitions in order to break through, it is because the existing fencers in those spots are already proving themselves internationally. All this fencer has to do is go to a World Cup competition and win it like Pavlov Kolobkov does.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

It's coming from credit cards, mostly...

Tell me about it.

The mail man delivers our credit card statements in a wheelbarrow.

[mpshiel]

Canada, being particularly um....thrifty, shall we say, requires top fencers to go to the events they tell them to go to (or they lose thier rating and can't represent Canada), but will only give them back the money for air fare......depending on how well they do at the event - if they do poorly that time, no money!

At the Pan-Am Games, the Canadian national women's foil team only had money for one room (the national champion got the cot under the dripping air-con). They still won. It is just wierd to hear the "champions" coming back going, "If only we were on the team from Cuba...."

As to sabre - it seems from the results that US good - Canada - stinks: Maybe we should train some sabre fencers?

[Inquartata]

First of all, there are no international points for veterans.

Sure there are---you get them by fencing in the Veterans World Championships.

They may not be given by the FIE, but they ARE gotten at an international competition.