A few months ago I tried to take bout notes at a high school tournament. After recovering from a flashback to my days as a football statistician for college radio, I put some ideas on a spreadsheet with an eye towards better recording the zone, the call and the score.
In the interest of open source development, I would be interested in any ideas and comments this august body might have.
This seems familiar, like I think I've seen something like this before. I like it,and it looks like you've made it small enough I could get several of these on a single sheet.
How do you use the 4 boxes to the left and right of the strip diagram? Are those for the actions leading up to the actual touch? Can you whip up a version for DE's (15 touches)?
You have two opponents, the one standing on the strip, and the one standing to the side of it.
Yes, the boxes are for the ref calls for each side eg.: "Attack from left, parry riposte, counter parry riposte, touch left" would be
A, CP, CR <...insert strip zone diagram here...> P, R
Ref calls of more than 4 actions would be rare and I figured you just put an X in the zone where the phrase occured.
DE's aren't a problem, except you bump the possible called phrases to 29 and I was trying to get each bout on one sheet.
The goal was to put together a score sheet that a parent could fill out that could be useful to the fencer and a coach. Theoretically, a person with real enthusiasm for databases and data entry could put together a fancy statistical analysis of strip zones, percentage of points scored on direct attacks vs. ripostes, etc.
I just now thought of this, but data entry would be less horrific if one had the spreadsheet on a PDA, stripside... Space on the page becomes insignificant at that point, also.
For foil off-target hits can also be significant and should be trackable.
Argues further towards an electronic- (rather than paper-) based system.
-B
Yes... I'll have to think on that. Although the idea of tracking off-target in HS foil boggles one a bit...
*Thinking In Public*
Electronically, it could be set up to fill in a form (a'la Microsoft Access) for each halt (needs more research, but intriguing idea), but for paper perhaps there could just be a notation on the zone diagram until there's a score? Madness for data entry, but a coach could look and quickly see if point control/target choice was an issue. Is zone a consideration when looking at on/off target stats? Would a tally of white lights per bout be sufficiently useful (as in ratio of touches vs. off targets for the whole bout)?
I was going to make the point that if you were tracking off-targets, then you could possibly end up with a ream of paper for a single bout!
Not having any experience in keeping stats for any sport, my first question would be, is there enough time to record the information as it is being called? In the spirit of keeping things moving, most referees may not give you enough time between Halt and Fence.
Has anyone had any experience with a fencing shorthand for doing scouting reports on fencers?
Something tells me that (and this ties in with the discussion going on in the Kuwait 2007 thread) former Eastern Bloc coaches may have had such a system. Wouldn't surprise me.
Remember those who put their lives in danger for your sake.
Dartfish is a very cool system that can be used for something like this.
Non sport-specific, can be customized to allow convenient tracking of almost anything (so can be, and is expected to be, sport-specific in actual use, although the software can be used in a wide variety of settings).
Designed to be used with video footage. The tagging can be done (by an experienced practicioner) in real time.
I've sat in on a few demonstrations of the software (at least 1-2 with Andrea Lagan showing how it can be used in fencing settings, 2 more with a Dartfish sales rep who was showing it off to a number of teams (and a vocal performance professor) at Temple).
Would take a lot of practice and experimentation to sort out the best methods of using it to improve performance.
But definitely a really cool tool.
-B
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
I was going to make the point that if you were tracking off-targets, then you could possibly end up with a ream of paper for a single bout!
Not having any experience in keeping stats for any sport, my first question would be, is there enough time to record the information as it is being called? In the spirit of keeping things moving, most referees may not give you enough time between Halt and Fence...
Keeping stats does require focus and you can't really follow the action in the same way a spectator would, as there is no time for reflection, but if you're not having to follow technique/tactics/distance, etc., there should be plenty of time to at least record the calls for touches. White lights could still be problematical in detail - that's why I'm leaning more towards just keeping a tally for each bout, rather than recording each halted action. I don't know a thing about Dartfish, but if an Access style form was set up with radio buttons for each action it could be recorded very quickly. This whole idea of electronic stat keeping is becoming more interesting the more I think about it... Whether my feeble database skills are up to the task is another question.
Last edited by chefencer; 02-01-2007 at 04:37 PM.
Reason: OCD
I was thinking along similar lines, but from the stand point of tracking types of attacks, defenses, where touches landed, success rates, etc. and being able to not only provide feedback to students, but develop, as I said, scouting reports on other fencers.
Inspiration comes from the kinds of information that is displayed on pitchers (kinds of pitches, ball placement, etc) and quarterbacks (areas of the field thrown to, percentage of completions, etc).
Do any of the upper level coaches on the board do this kind of thing? Or do you rely on the fencer to remember and know this things about opponents from previous meetings?
Remember those who put their lives in danger for your sake.
Has anyone had any experience with a fencing shorthand for doing scouting reports on fencers?
I have not read it, but my coach did his phd thesis on something that I think might be along these lines. When we go over theory during practice, he often uses a shorthand for actions and whatnot.
Author Miller, Ronald C.
Title The development of a coded symbolic language for the analysis and teaching of fencing [microfilm] / by Ronald C. Miller.
Imprint 1976.
Originally Posted by oiuyt 
