New German Foil Points?

[OROD]

While at the Pouj last weekend I saw a new kind of foil points, which I was told are a "new" German type. I'm not speaking of the new thicker barrel ones that use the same old tips and screws. These are almost like the French points, including a tip with collar that has holes in it. The screws are like a bigger French screw, that sits flush with the barrel.

Does anyone know what these are called and who sells them?

Thnx.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by OROD

While at the Pouj last weekend I saw a new kind of foil points, which I was told are a "new" German type. I'm not speaking of the new thicker barrel ones that use the same old tips and screws. These are almost like the French points, including a tip with collar that has holes in it. The screws are like a bigger French screw, that sits flush with the barrel.

Does anyone know what these are called and who sells them?

Thnx.

Those are the new ones Rosler makes....Fencing Post is in the proess of switching over to them...I don;t really care for them...they're fairly new and I have to be careful about losing screws if they come across my desk.

On first glance they look like french tips (if you look at the screw)....not a problem if you do your own armory...but if you do it for other people, you could waste a wire if you;re not careful.

[mifencer]

I mention something like this a long time ago, and everyone thought I was talking silly nonesense (not that I don't, but I was serious at that moment).

If someone could shed more light on these tips, that would be great. I only know that when I was in Germany 2004, I asked the Allstar guy about it, and he didn't know anything about those tips. A friend of mine bought those tips in France from the Allstar dealer there.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by mifencer

I mention something like this a long time ago, and everyone thought I was talking silly nonesense (not that I don't, but I was serious at that moment).

If someone could shed more light on these tips, that would be great. I only know that when I was in Germany 2004, I asked the Allstar guy about it, and he didn't know anything about those tips. A friend of mine bought those tips in France from the Allstar dealer there.

Basically the screws are similar to Frenchies (but shorter) and sit flush with the surface of the barrel. The collar of the tip itself is like a french. I don't remember, however, if the barrel hoes are tapped...

[OROD]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Basically the screws are similar to Frenchies (but shorter) and sit flush with the surface of the barrel. The collar of the tip itself is like a french. I don't remember, however, if the barrel hoes are tapped...

I wish I'd gotten a better look when I was in Austin, but I was told that the tip was more like a French tip now. So, since the screw goes into the holes in the tip, it's threaded. Oh, and the collar on the tip is steal, not brass like the cheap French ones. Also, the screws almost looked like epee screws when they were in the barrel... that is, they seemed that wide. But, they must be shapped like the French... just bigger. Also, I was told that this was the new "German" type, but I didnt know if that meant they're discontinuying the normal German ones after some time??

Personally the only reason I like the German points is because of the quality, but I hate the screws sticking out. This seems like an improvement and I'd be willing to switch over to using these if I can find them.


.

[Craig]

Those are what Gary would call the "Belgian" points. They're the FWF French Style points.

I've had a few here but since they cost about the same as the standard German FWF points and the Leon Paul points have the same benefits there was no reason to continue to carry them. (Since someone who is going to scrap all of their screws and points to move to that would do better moving to the LP anyway.)

Craig

[KD5MDK]

OROD, who had them?

[OROD]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

OROD, who had them?

Karen was selling them.

.

[wahrman]

Has anyone seen these tips lately?

Someone at Tucson had them. I think it was the booth next to Sword Masters but I can't remember who that was.

[thrush]

Originally Posted by wahrman

Has anyone seen these tips lately?

Someone at Tucson had them. I think it was the booth next to Sword Masters but I can't remember who that was.

Saul at Fencing Post carries them.

I definitely like the new German barrels, tips, and screws better, but I have to say that it was something of a pain to buy blades fitted with them only to later realize that repairs required me to buy a whole new set of points and whatnot.

[CvilleFencer]

That is one of the really good thing about the "Next Generation" German points. All the screws, tips and springs are completely compatible with the original German pattern. All the changes are to the barrel.

If you are not familiar with them, as opposed to just being remade French pattern points, the Next Gen tips have a very thick barrel that shrouds the screw heads and is very hard to dent. A nice design, and if you are already running German points, a lot cheaper and easier since you only have to replace the barrel.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

That is one of the really good thing about the "Next Generation" German points. All the screws, tips and springs are completely compatible with the original German pattern. All the changes are to the barrel.

If you are not familiar with them, as opposed to just being remade French pattern points, the Next Gen tips have a very thick barrel that shrouds the screw heads and is very hard to dent. A nice design, and if you are already running German points, a lot cheaper and easier since you only have to replace the barrel.

I have switched to those new barrels....no more of the older ones for me.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by OROD

I wish I'd gotten a better look when I was in Austin, but I was told that the tip was more like a French tip now. So, since the screw goes into the holes in the tip, it's threaded. Oh, and the collar on the tip is steal, not brass like the cheap French ones. Also, the screws almost looked like epee screws when they were in the barrel... that is, they seemed that wide. But, they must be shapped like the French... just bigger. Also, I was told that this was the new "German" type, but I didnt know if that meant they're discontinuying the normal German ones after some time??

Personally the only reason I like the German points is because of the quality, but I hate the screws sticking out. This seems like an improvement and I'd be willing to switch over to using these if I can find them.


.

Every time there is a thread about French vs German everyone screams at me saying they like their German better than the French(sport7..sort of synonymous). Now we see this thread where this new German tip seems suddenly so superior due to a common French trait...flush barrel screws..

Jesus... maybe people should just listen to me or something. Not that I'm saying I told y'all so...but I am. So sorry to be an insufferable know-it-all...but I am, I guess.. muahahahahahahah!!

PS: Is there such thing as a sufferable know-it-all?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Every time there is a thread about French vs German everyone screams at me saying they like their German better than the French(sport7..sort of synonymous). Now we see this thread where this new German tip seems suddenly so superior due to a common French trait...flush barrel screws..

Jesus... maybe people should just listen to me or something. Not that I'm saying I told y'all so...but I am. So sorry to be an insufferable know-it-all...but I am, I guess.. muahahahahahahah!!

PS: Is there such thing as a sufferable know-it-all?

My issue with the new design is this....how do most people (not always armorers) tell the difference between French and German without taking the tip apart??

By looking at the screws, usually....they are told that if the screws sit flush with the barrel and have a large head, they're French....if they're small and protrude, German.

The point we're discussing LOOKS like a French at first glance, but if you put a French wire in there, it'll be VERY loose because the inner diameter is different between the German and French designs (and between the Sport 7 and Prieur Frenchies as well)...and a loose cup may mean the point not working properly.

You can't always go by the other quick-look definition -- looking at the wire color (red or white) -- because Sport 7 has blue wires out now....a color which ha been identified with German wires for year (thanks for the consistency, guys)

I don't know if these are being sold anymore...the OTHER new German design -- the one with the thicker barrel -- is superior, which is why I have swiched over to them.

[wahrman]

Argh...

The problem is I don't fence foil often so I'm not terribly hip to the lingo and variations.

I bought two blades recently that both have these "French like" German tips on them.

It's time to rewire a third blade and I like to have them all be the same for ease of replacement parts.

But if these are going to be a pain to find, I'll just get the "other" new German barrels that work with the older German tips and screws.

I just need to figure out how to ask for them. Or have they completely replaced the older ones with the protruding screws?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by wahrman

Argh...

The problem is I don't fence foil often so I'm not terribly hip to the lingo and variations.

I bought two blades recently that both have these "French like" German tips on them.

It's time to rewire a third blade and I like to have them all be the same for ease of replacement parts.

But if these are going to be a pain to find, I'll just get the "other" new German barrels that work with the older German tips and screws.

I just need to figure out how to ask for them. Or have they completely replaced the older ones with the protruding screws?

You can buy the new, thicker barrels from F.net....everything else is the same...the only difference is teh barrel's a bit thicker so the screw head's hidden and the barrel doesn't dent.

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by fatfencer

Every time there is a thread about French vs German everyone screams at me saying they like their German better than the French(sport7..sort of synonymous). Now we see this thread where this new German tip seems suddenly so superior due to a common French trait...flush barrel screws..

Jesus... maybe people should just listen to me or something. Not that I'm saying I told y'all so...but I am. So sorry to be an insufferable know-it-all...but I am, I guess.. muahahahahahahah!!

PS: Is there such thing as a sufferable know-it-all?

Sport7 tips are a non-issue. Dog poo with easily-stripped flush screws is still dog poo with stripped screws in it.

Armorers have complained about mashed screws for years, a flush screw is not a new suggestion, someone just acted on it this time.

Now that the next gen German tips have flush screws they're that much better than French tips, because they were already better even when they had easily mashed screws.

[fatfencer]

Is it hallucinogenic?

Moore you silly cheesehead....

What kind of BS are you spewing now? I've never had ONE not ONE stripped Sport7 screw?

Sure I've had a a tip come out maybe 5 times in 5 years but most of those were German points before I switched. Only happened once with Sport 7 and then because there was only one screw.

Never had any problems with them breaking or anything.

It should tell you something that the Germans are migrating to the French in design. It's BETTER.

Duh!!

Fatfencer

[erooMynohtnA]

If I had 26 foils, none of mine would break either. Some of us live in the real world, though.