A mystery fencing illness...any ideas what it is?

[mpshiel]

Over the last four weeks I have had increasing trouble from a problem that only occurs when I am either fencing or during prolonged fitness conditioning.

This is what occurs: I feel a little "off" but fence anyway. After about 60-90 minutes of training I find myself slowing down and being unable to think clearly (like having a flu), people around me say I start slurring speech, followed by nausea, and problems being able to walk a straight line. There is often trembling in all extremities, dizziness, time disorientation, extreme sweating, then followed by inability to support body weight or if fallen down, unable to stand back up, or, if continued bouting and still upright eventually sudden and complete loss of consciousness. After awakening, disorientation and erratic motor function (unable to touch nose, etc) along with a loss of feeling over the entire body (including for instance any parts injured when falling) for 10-30 minutes. The process takes about 20 minutes from first to last, shorter if the fencing is particularly brisk.

The first time this occurred I thought it was heat exhaustion, so I drank water and keep sipping, yet it happened again, and again. My doctor is checking iron, glucose and hemoglobin but still waiting results.

I am a female in her 30s who has always done endurance sports, several years as a marathoner doing 150-200 miles a week - now I train 10-15 hours a week in fencing, though I do cross training like doing 3 hours fencing monday, 2 hours Tuesday and 6 hours hiking with wieghts on Wed. day off on thursday then three hours fencing on friday. I did not take time off over Xmas, and actually lost 15 pounds, my fat is below 15%, I do epee and I can do one armed push-ups with my epee arm. My liver was checked a year ago and functioning fine, my heart was checked 6 months ago, and the volume and rates were fine though I do get non-lethal heart attacks call P.A.T., but as they raise my heart rate to over 200, they shouldn't interfer with sports unless they last for over an hour.

The last attack was during a competition and started half way through pools, going on into my DE - it certainly affected my performance as I was held upright during the last break in the DE and if I had managed to win, would have had to forfeit the next DE anyway. I had fruit and water during the competition. I cannot see it as an endurance issue as it seems more that I simply slowly lose nuerological control - however, resting for 2 hours, I was able to go on and do low level exercise for another 3 hours. Normally I would say "More training!" except the more I train, the more often it seems to occur. This does not occur in normal day to day life, only during long distance runs and fencing over 90 minutes.

Has anyone heard or seen anything like this?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

You identify the symtoms as neurological, but your doctor is doing routine blood tests (iron.glucose/hemoglobin)................. Why don't you start by going to a neurologist???

This doesn't sound like it's fencing specific...... it sounds like it would be happening in any vaguely similar sport. As such, we won't be nearly as helpful as a good physician......

[Montoya]

Very odd.

Just a thought to consider, based on a patient I once had with exercise intolerance. He turned out to have neurally mediated hypotension.

Check out:http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mecfs/general/nmh1.html

[OROD]

...I am a female in her 30s who has always done endurance sports, several years as a marathoner doing 150-200 miles a week - now I train 10-15 hours a week in fencing, though I do cross training like doing 3 hours fencing monday, 2 hours Tuesday and 6 hours hiking with wieghts on Wed. day off on thursday then three hours fencing on friday. I did not take time off over Xmas, and actually lost 15 pounds, my fat is below 15%, I do epee and I can do one armed push-ups with my epee arm. My liver was checked a year ago and functioning fine, my heart was checked 6 months ago, and the volume and rates were fine though I do get non-lethal heart attacks call P.A.T., but as they raise my heart rate to over 200, they shouldn't interfer with sports unless they last for over an hour...

I think I found what your problem is...

.

[Fencergrl]

Are you careful about your food intake? Parts of what you describe sounds like very low blood sugar. I'm sure you've already discussed this with your doctor however... let us know what the specialists have to say.

[D'Art]

How much alcohol do you drink before/during fencing? Your symptoms sound a lot like mine the night before/after a comp.....

[mpshiel]

Don't drink sorry - thanks for the other information - I will try and get them checked out or eliminated.

[Phaeton]

Go...to...the...doctor! Internet forum health advice is always so wonderful.

[rudd]

What is you height and body weight. No need to post if you don't want to but something to consider. If your 15% body fat and lost 15lbs of weight over Christmas it sounds to me like your seriously under-eating and over training. You may also be underweight. Calculate your BMI to get a very rough idea. Have you also suddenly increased volume of training?

If that's the case increase your food intake and take a 6-8 week break from all training. See this link for the symptoms of over training.

BTW I'm not a physician or therapist nor do I play one on TV.

[Downtown]

Beth:

Read again advice from Phaeton.

Do NOT make me drive across country and then hang a right up to Canada.

Gray Epee....over and out

[BrianH]

That was an interesting article referenced by Montoya.

"It is likely that we all could develop neurally mediated hypotension provided that the conditions were sufficiently severe: for example, if we did not take in enough fluids or salt, were subjected to extremely prolonged periods of upright posture, or to very warm environments."

This sounds like a typical salle during heavy workouts, doesn't it? And if the patient has been overtraining, as Beth has been known to do....

The best advice you're going to hear here is to see a physician. I hope you you do.

Good luck with this diagnosis and treatment.

Brian

[RebelFencer]

You have a humor imbalance. Get some leeches and bleed yourself to health.

[OROD]

You have a humor imbalance.

I prescribe 2 episodes of Seinfeld, 3 Everybody Loves Raymond, and call me in the morning.

.

[RebelFencer]

I prescribe 2 episodes of Seinfeld, 3 Everybody Loves Raymond, and call me in the morning.

.

Everybody Loves Raymond? Ugh. I do like Seinfeld though, but then again, who doesn't?

[Chafunkta]

After about 60-90 minutes of training I find myself slowing down and being unable to think clearly...

[snip]

...though I do get non-lethal heart attacks call P.A.T., but as they raise my heart rate to over 200, they shouldn't interfer with sports unless they last for over an hour.

[snip]

This does not occur in normal day to day life, only during long distance runs and fencing over 90 minutes.

Am I the only one that thinks these things are somehow related?

[Elendae]

Everybody Loves Raymond? Ugh. I do like Seinfeld though, but then again, who doesn't?

I don't know, I've never watched either one.

I agree with all suggesting the doctor. I've been on the receiving end of that advice more times than I'd like to admit... but it has always been the best option (not that my club mates and coach would have let me do anything else).

[OROD]

I don't know, I've never watched either one.

Really?? Seinfeld is great, you're missing out.

.

[Captain Hook]

I prescribe 2 episodes of Seinfeld, 3 Everybody Loves Raymond, and call me in the morning.

.

yeowch! is that some kind of cruel and unusual punishment?

your problem sounds pretty nasty... go and see a doc like others have said

Even the people on these forums with medical experience can only help you so much with just your description to go on.

[mpshiel]

Yes, I should and will go to a doctor, I was hoping to give him some idea as with free medicine, there are long waits and doing a series of tests could take six months easily.

I also somehow feel the idea of working out less and feeling better is something that a puritan ancestor will rise out of the grave to smite me for even thinking.

[HDG]

I also somehow feel the idea of working out less and feeling better is something that a puritan ancestor will rise out of the grave to smite me for even thinking.

Well, in that case you won't have any more health problems...

Anyway, what kind of descedant of Puritans goes in for socialized medicine? And what kind of Puritan would engage in the wickedness and sin of recreation and sport? All good Puritans know that time not spent working is to be spent praying.