New fencer, when to compete?

[GuitarKid]

First off, I'm 14 which im not sure that has anything to do with it, but it might. I have started fencing recently and was wondering when is the normal time to start competeing? Thanks in advance

~Guitar kid

P.S. Im trying out the whole ~(name) thing, to much or good?

[OROD]

First off, I'm 14 which im not sure that has anything to do with it, but it might. I have started fencing recently and was wondering when is the normal time to start competeing? Thanks in advance

Ask your coach. Otherwise, I'd wait until you've got a good handle on the basics... footwork, and distance, simple attacks and parries. The problem with starting to compete too soon is that you'll start to develop bad habits that will be difficult to get rid of later.

How often are you practicing? Are you taking lessons? If you're practicing a couple times a week and taking lessons, I'd wait about a year before starting to compete... just to throw out there a figure. But it depends a lot.

.

[GuitarKid]

I work out about twice a day everyday and fence 1 or 2 times a week, i only started lessons 2 weeks ago... my couch said if I work on arm strength a bit more I should be competing in 3 months...

[Coldfire]

What OROD said is true. Knowing that information helps us to better help you.

Personally I fenced 4 days a week for two years (fall and winter season only a JV HS team) with lessons every now and then before my first competition. But thats just me.

This is the kind of decision that you and your coach need to make together. If you do decided to go though here some advice.

Don;t go to win. You have to approach your first tournament with a different mindset than you usually have when practicing at you club. Dont expect to win and dont be discouraged if you are beaten down badly. Thats often how everyone's first tournament goes. Treat it as a learning experience. For the first time you are probably fencing people you have never fenced before and they more than likely have more experience than yourself. See what works against them. Do things that work at your local club work on other people from other areas? If not what do you need to change to do better? Answer questions like that on your own after the competeition. If you think you are ready and have the right mindset to take it as a learning experience your fencing will benefit greatly from it.

[Coldfire]

I work out about twice a day everyday and fence 1 or 2 times a week, i only started lessons 2 weeks ago... my couch said if I work on arm strength a bit more I should be competing in 3 months...

Fencing 1 or 2 times a week I would wait a bit longer to compete. At that rate its going to take a good amount of time to really develop to the level that you can do well in a competition. Of course if you read my previous post and that is not your goal then it could be benficial to your learning and getting better.

So your couch talks to you huh?

[keropie]

First: it depends entirely on your mindset when you compete. If you are going to have fun/learn/gain experience, whenever you feel comfortable (though I'd say two weeks is a bit premature, on our team at UNC we send people with one week of experience to a competition EVERY year. Mind you, they are all college freshman or older, and many/most of them get beat upon, but hey, literally 7 to 10 days after their first day of practice they're out there competing).

Secondly: eh. If you like the ~(name) thing, knock yourself out

[GuitarKid]

Well I'm really not tying to toot my own horn... but on the first day i beat every single person in my age group most of them without touching me... the second practice I did the same thing... so yes, my couch talks to me lol.

And really I'm sorry if at all that was offensive to anyone anyway im not trying to downplay my club mates im jsut a 5'9" 14 year old who is very quick on his feet... probably begginers luck though.

[ParryRiposte]

Well I'm really not tying to toot my own horn... but on the first day i beat every single person in my age group most of them without touching me... the second practice I did the same thing... so yes, my couch talks to me lol.

And really I'm sorry if at all that was offensive to anyone anyway im not trying to downplay my club mates im jsut a 5'9" 14 year old who is very quick on his feet... probably begginers luck though.

I'd say begin competing when you feel like you have your basics down solid and can perform a bout with confidence. At your point a tournament is not about winning, but acquiring experience, and even a small in-house tounament will do you as much good as an NAC. Also as the othershave been saying make sure to consult your couch before going.

5'9"? Bah. A friend of mine, also 14, is already 6'4".

[keropie]

so yes, my couch talks to me lol.

I believe the point is that your couch (upon which you should sit) should not be speaking to you, or at least you shouldn't be admitting it. If your coach (the guy/gal who teaches you how to fence) talks to you, that's a good thing. Actually, if he/she doesn't, that's a bad thing. But when the couch talks to you, for the love of <insert_deity_here>, don't answer.

[Coldfire]

Based on what you said you are better than everyone your age. Ok thats fine. But how much experience did they have. Have you fenced older more experienced people and with how much success. Winning in practice usually doesnt mean anything unless you are fencing a rival of equal skill (then it gets intense ). I would suggest fencing up a bit if those your age are too easy and seeing how you fare. If you are indeed the prodigy you claim to be go to a tournament with the ideas and mindsets previously stated by everyone on this thread and just go for it. It will show you what you have to work on to get better.

So what exactly are you on that your couch talks to you because I want in on it. Has to be pretty strong to do thatl....

[OROD]

I work out about twice a day everyday and fence 1 or 2 times a week, i only started lessons 2 weeks ago... my couch said if I work on arm strength a bit more I should be competing in 3 months...

If you are training 1 or 2 times a week, and lets say taking lessons once a week, I'd wait more than 3 months to compete. Arm strength is besides the point.

Some more information would help us give you better advice here...

What's your goal in fencing? Is it to just have fun, for excercise, or do you want to become good and be able to compete nationaly at some point?

Why do you want to compete at this stage? To get practice, to see how you're progressing, for fun, ... ?

If you couldnt compete for 6 or 12 months, would that put you off from fencing?

But, basically my advice is this... if your goal is to really stick with fencing and keep improving, then competing early is not necessary, but might hurt more. In a competition you do what it takes to win, you dont practice to improve. Now, when you compete early two things happen... 1) you havent really solidified your basic skills, so you will lose badly against experienced people and your performance will seem very irregular. This can be discouraging. And, 2) when you do win, you will do so against people who are not very good, and, you will win sometimes by doing things that are technically very bad. But, since you win by doing these things, they will become ingrained in you... in a sense, you will be practicing and learning how to beat bad fencers. The problem then comes when you try to fence good fencers, but you've developed all these bad habits that work against bad fencers, but not against good ones. At that point, you will have to spend a lot of time un-training those habits and training new one.

But, you can go a long way towards avoiding these problems by just waiting until you're a bit more experienced before you start competing. 3 months is not long enough, no matter how much you train. Also, dont worry about winning during bouts at the club. Just worry about practicing and getting better.

I know it can be difficult to wait to compete, you want to get out there and start having fun... and sometimes just taking lessons and practicing doesnt seem like enough. But, a little patience can pay off later. And, really, what's so hard about waiting 6 months or a year? Just think of how much butt you'll be kicking when you do get out there... they'll never see you coming. =)

.

[GuitarKid]

haha thanks fo rpointing that out (its the spell check you know... and lack of fluids in my system) and yeah i got kinda creeped out when my couch said i should set some fires... I went evil dead style...nuff said.

[GuitarKid]

Oh and my goal is competing and thank you for all of your help (and witty banter of course) im going to wait about a year to compete and fence more a week.

[ParryRiposte]

Well, you don't have to wait a year. I started competing in my third month after fencing once a week, and I did well enough. I don't know. Everyone is different in terms of readiness for competition. You should attend as many competitions as you can in the meantime to see what other people are doing.

[Rabid Monk]

I competed after only about 3 months of training.

At the time, we had a novice division in competitions for those who'd been fencing less than a year. I found these competitions to be a great learning experience, and a lot of fun.

After my first year, though, I moved to open, and got my arse handed to me badly. It was actually very discouraging, and I didn't begin competing again until recently. Having some 1-on-1 coaching helped, aswell!

[Aside: I sort of got screwed over on the coaching bit. I was a year too old to qualify for the Canada Winter Games when I began fencing, so I never really had much more than the full-class sessions with the coaches. I got in one or two private lessons, but that was it. Our coaches were more focused on getting the CWG kids ready, and keeping up the training with the high performance kids (who, in this case, were also CWG). Since then, the coaches left pur fair city to go to Ontario (fencing jobs do not exist, so when offered one, they went).]

I was left in the group classes until last year, when we brought in a new coach, and I finally started getting personal lessons. It's helped, and I've actually been able to win bouts at competitions. I should point out, though, that I'm not a very cxompetitive person. I'm happy to fence new people, and get at least one point in each match. Anything more is purely gravy.

I suppose the point of this is to offer the viewpoint of someone who went competitive aftew only a few months.
I had a blast, and I'd recommend to beginners. The only change I'd like to see is an intermediate stage, so you don't have to go from the novice category straight into fencing the elite-level athletes. That can be discouraging.

So, I'd say get a grip on the basics, and then have fun. Don't expect to win, but pay attention to how others fence, and pick up what you can. It's a completely different environment than the club. And you may just grow to love the feeling of a wire at your back.

[Coldfire]

I waited an entire two years and I'm fine. Maybe not "normal" but sane.

[GuitarKid]

I'll talk to my couches some more about it.

[achilles_heal]

i am just a sabre fencer and coach, but i would imagine the danger of bad habits someone mentioned - which is a danger in any weapon - is more for epee and foil, esp epee, where you could get lucky and beat someone who is a someone and you might think your as yet underdeveloped style is sweet. horrible sabre habits are seldom rewarded since it is so easy for the opponent to hit your target.

i agree that it's basically up to your coach, he won't send you hopefully till you have fundamentals and then, whenever. you're paying him, so you might as well listen to him (or is it a her? sorry ladies) he knows you better than we gallant f.net posters. three months sounds as good as anything else.

once you start competing, go to every one you can find.

intraclub competition at any level, though is very important. not just free fencing or an impromptu pool. real ones with shiny prizes. and red cards and bad directing.

probably don't go to a nac till you can beat people who go. if no one in your club goes, wait until you can whomp on them easily.

good luck.

[Goldgar]

I work out about twice a day everyday and fence 1 or 2 times a week, i only started lessons 2 weeks ago... my couch said if I work on arm strength a bit more I should be competing in 3 months...

Although I understand where OROD is coming from, I really don't think you're going to do yourself any lasting harm competing after 3 months. It really depends on (a) you, your emotional strength and approach to competition, and (b) who you're competing with.

If you go out to compete against decent fencers with a lot more experience than you have, then you will either win (in which case you're actually quite good for the amount of time you've been training) or lose (in which case you'll see the difference between what you know and are able to do at this point, and what good fencers do). Provided that you go in with reasonable expectations and don't let the results -- good or bad -- affect you too much, you may find the experience quite salutary and educational. If you go in thinking you're hot stuff, get clobbered, and then get discouraged and conclude you suck, then you haven't done yourself any favors. But if you have the emotional stability to set reasonable goals and learn from the experience, then I don't see any harm. If you do well, it probably says more about your athleticism than your technique (given your level of experience), but that's not a bad thing. It just means it's up to you to recognize that you still have to add both technical and tactical depth to your game. Your coach should be able to help you with that.

If you go to compete against fencers at something close to your own level experience, then you will probably succeed or fail due to a combination of your athleticism, your natural untrained gifts, and the technique you've learned. That's fine. You have to analyze the results afterward to see where you're weak and where you're strong. If you are ever to be a strong competitor, you need to start doing this now. At your age, this may not be a natural thing to do. It's easy to say "I won! I'm terrific!" or "I lost. I suck!", but neither reaction does you any good. It may well be that your coach can help you with the analysis, but your coach probably won't have seen all your bouts, and will need to get a meaningful report from you about what happened, what worked for you, and what worked against you in your bouts. Ultimately, once you start competing in earnest, you are responsible for this sort of analysis; your coach is a good resource, but you have to take responsibility for it yourself.

If you go out and fence in an open event after 3 months of training, up against fencers who've been training for 5-10 years, you can expect to lose a lot. That doesn't mean the competition can't be successful, from the point of view of your development as a fencer. You just have to set reasonable goals. Sometimes, that means just getting a touch on most of my opponents. Other times it may mean getting out of the first round, or winning your first DE, or making the final -- it all depends on the strength of the competition and your own realistic appraisal of your own abilities. The key to successful competition is, first, to know what constitutes success, and second to look at what happened afterward to see what you need to work on.

[Purple Fencer]

If you Do go and compete this year....especially if it's an open event...beware the Karate Kid Syndrome...beginners do NOT waltz into an open fencing event and win....depending on the strength of the event, you may be lucky to squeak into DE and face the #1 seed only to get cruelly hammered 15-0. (Right, OROD??).

Experience counts for a lot....much more so than sheer skill. You have to know not only what to do, but how and WHEN to do it.

Every so often I fence epee with people in club who have been in classes for a year...some who even have some competitive experience, but I often end up beating them not because I am a good epeeist -- I am not....it was always the worst of the three weapons for me -- but because I fenced all three weapons competitively and frequently for 5 years, and even though i was at best a mediocre fencer, that experience did and DOES give me a certain insight to fencing a relative beginner. i am much more able to read what they're doing, to direct them to where I want them to go and what I want them to do...that's how experience -- even for someone who hasn't competed in 5 years -- can offset skill.

Don't presume that just because you can romp in the salle than you'll do the same in actual competition.