Uhlmann Cable Guide

[mutantmoose]

Okay, so I've been servicing the reels at the club, all of which are Uhlmanns. I ahve read lots of good stuff on cleaning and tweaking these, but I can't find where to buy the cable guide that seem to wear out so fast on these!

So, two questions -

One - where do I get the blasted things?

Two - any tricks to help these last longer? I was wondering if the ceramic guide from a fishing reel might slow the wear on these things a bit...

Thanks!

Mark

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by mutantmoose

Okay, so I've been servicing the reels at the club, all of which are Uhlmanns. I ahve read lots of good stuff on cleaning and tweaking these, but I can't find where to buy the cable guide that seem to wear out so fast on these!

So, two questions -

One - where do I get the blasted things?

Blue Gauntlet, if you really need to.

Originally Posted by mutantmoose

Two - any tricks to help these last longer? I was wondering if the ceramic guide from a fishing reel might slow the wear on these things a bit...

Thanks!

Mark

You have two things here, a guide block that costs no more than $10. And a reel cable that costs $60 and takes about an hour to change.

To begin with, the only reason the guide block is wearing is because you aren't doing a perfect job of keeping the reels straight. If you keep them perfectly straight, the wear is negligible.

If you add the ceramic guide from a fishing reel, or a steel sleeve, or even a maple dowel with a hole in it, then the guide block doesn't wear out as fast. I have seen them all used.

BUT THE CABLE DOES. And it is more expensive and more complicated to replace.

We recover from this problem by building up the worn groove with two part paste epoxy. I have done it so often I can do it to six reels in about 40 minutes, flat out.

Take the top off by removing the 4 cheese head screws on the bottom.

Take the tension off the reel spring. Disconnect the commutator. I use my large jeweler's scredriver, insert it at the bottom and twist to loosen it. Then it is easier to take off.

Slip the cable it over the top of the spool where you now have a gap because you disconnected the commutator. Continue until you have several feet of cable with the spring at rest.

Unscrew the guide block so you can handle it conveniently.

Mix up the epoxy and, working around the cablae, pack it into the groove with a largish jeweler’s screw driver, about 1/8 inch. After it dries, trim it off. I have used several types of paste epoxy, they all seem to work as well.

Replace the guide block. Slip the cable over the spool until all the slack is out.

Now you do it a few more times to get a preload on the spring. Very early in my armoring career Joe Byrnes advised me to use 4 to 5 turns of preload.

DON'T FORGET TO REPLACE THE COMMUTATOR. Make sure it is straight and push it straight down. I wish I had a nickel for every time I forgot that.

Put the top back on and you are done.

While it is open you can clean out all the dust and the wooly boogers that have accumulated under the spool.

[mutantmoose]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

To begin with, the only reason the guide block is wearing is because you aren't doing a perfect job of keeping the reels straight. If you keep them perfectly straight, the wear is negligible.

Ermm - not to sound dense, but what do you mean? Do you mean something internal to the reels, or just keep the fencers moving in a perfectly straight line?

Part of the reason for the wear is that the reels have seen pretty heavy use for seven years with NO maintenance other than occasionally cutting down the wire a few inches to make it work again. I intend to correct this lack of maintenance, and I intend to do it in a way that works.

Someone put a brass tube in one of the guides - that sure did a number to the cable. This is why I thought that the ceramic or teflon guides might help a bit, but I really should replace the actual blue plastic guide and just get it right.

Mark

[yeoldearmourer]

I have some cable guides that are made out of cermic which is then inserted into the old cable guide. Cermic last longer than most mentod I have used in the past

[DHCJr]

Let me add to what Bill said. If you look at the wear on the guides you will find that they are all on the outside (Right side as you look from the front).

The reason for this is they are light weight (thus they move easily) and the opening is not in the center. This means unless you put them down permanently they will twist themselves slightly to their right.

If you have a permanent installation you put them so they face straight down the strip and lock them down so they can not move at all.

If it is a temporary location, then when you tape them down you turn them slightly to their left and the force of the twisting will straighten them to face down the piste.

[mutantmoose]

Ah, I see about the straight thing. Yes, these are hard mounted and immovable, the wear to the guide seems to be, as I face it, a line extending up at 1 oclock from the hole for entry. Like I said, seven years hard use, and if I understand correctly these are wear and tear items.

I'll have to call Blue Gauntlet, they don't have these things in their online catalog. Is there a repair manual anywhere?

(Seven years hard use, almost no maintenance, and the only failures are in the wires. Pretty impressive, these are good machines, we'll we how they hold up compared to the Faveros in the other club.)

[SJCFU#2]

I'm not aware of any manuals but Uhlmann has a fairly complete parts list available for download on their web site (go to uhlmann-fechtsport.com and look under downloads/price lists). The segment (as Uhlmann refers to it) is item 134-12.

The segment is actually quite easy to replace - there are only two screws that hold it in place and they are accessible from underneath (although you may have to remove one of the rubber feet to get to one of the screws). The annoying thing is that you have to feed the cable through the segment from one end (why couldn't they have just made the thing in two parts so it could be fit around the cable). This usually entails removing the fencer end socket, including the rings soldered to the end of the wires, feeding the end of the cable through the segment, then reinstalling the fencer end socket.

You may also want to check how much cable is left - just in case someone removed more than a few inches. It's easy to install a new segment as part of the cable replacement.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

I'm not aware of any manuals but Uhlmann has a fairly complete parts list available for download on their web site (go to uhlmann-fechtsport.com and look under downloads/price lists). The segment (as Uhlmann refers to it) is item 134-12.

The segment is actually quite easy to replace - there are only two screws that hold it in place and they are accessible from underneath (although you may have to remove one of the rubber feet to get to one of the screws). The annoying thing is that you have to feed the cable through the segment from one end (why couldn't they have just made the thing in two parts so it could be fit around the cable). This usually entails removing the fencer end socket, including the rings soldered to the end of the wires, feeding the end of the cable through the segment, then reinstalling the fencer end socket.

You may also want to check how much cable is left - just in case someone removed more than a few inches. It's easy to install a new segment as part of the cable replacement.

The easiest thing of all is to fill up the grooves with epoxy, which you can do while the cable is in the segment. Because it is easy, you can do it before the cable wears away.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

I have some cable guides that are made out of cermic which is then inserted into the old cable guide. Cermic last longer than most mentod I have used in the past

If the cable guide isn't wearing then the cable probably is. More cost and time effective to restore the cable guide than to replace the cable.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by mutantmoose

Ah, I see about the straight thing. Yes, these are hard mounted and immovable, the wear to the guide seems to be, as I face it, a line extending up at 1 oclock from the hole for entry.

It sounds like you are getting most of the wear at the top rather than the sides (where it usually is if the reel rotates around). This suggests that the mountings are doing a good job of keeping the reels from rotating but the cable is being pulled up as soon as it leaves the reel.

Along with everything else you may want to look at raising the front of reel a bit so that the cable is runs straight out of the guide vertically as well as transversely.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

The easiest thing of all is to fill up the grooves with epoxy, which you can do while the cable is in the segment. Because it is easy, you can do it before the cable wears away.

I'll have to remember that next time the Division asks me to fix their Uhlmann reels.

Originally Posted by fencerbill

If the cable guide isn't wearing then the cable probably is. More cost and time effective to restore the cable guide than to replace the cable.

I'm inclined to agree - I'd rather repair or replace an inexpensive plastic guide than the cable.

However it is interesting to note that plastic ring on Leon Paul reels rarely show significant signs of wear, yet this doesn't seem to bother the cable. This suggest that the plastic Uhlmann uses is probably much softer than it needs to be in order to minimize wear on the cable.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

However it is interesting to note that plastic ring on Leon Paul reels rarely show significant signs of wear, yet this doesn't seem to bother the cable. This suggest that the plastic Uhlmann uses is probably much softer than it needs to be in order to minimize wear on the cable.

I have seen wear on LP guides but in general much less than on Uhlmann turtles.

A couple of reasons:

LP reels use a fabric covered cable, which does show wear.

The LP reel has a center exit guide. So there is no twisting force on the reel and they seem to stay in place where turtles get all twisty.

LP rubber feet seem more effective, seem softer.

[mutantmoose]

Originally Posted by fencerbill

The easiest thing of all is to fill up the grooves with epoxy, which you can do while the cable is in the segment. Because it is easy, you can do it before the cable wears away.

And I see in another post from April that you use a "two-part paste epoxy". Is there a brand or specific product that you use?

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

Along with everything else you may want to look at raising the front of reel a bit so that the cable is runs straight out of the guide vertically as well as transversely.

I was just thinking about this, my only concern was that the wire might nto wind evenly on the reel, but that doesn't seem likely, so I'll give it a shot. Shouldn't take much tilt to have a significant effect.

And, before I forget again, a big thank you to everybody for helping out!

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by mutantmoose

And I see in another post from April that you use a "two-part paste epoxy". Is there a brand or specific product that you use?



I was just thinking about this, my only concern was that the wire might nto wind evenly on the reel, but that doesn't seem likely, so I'll give it a shot. Shouldn't take much tilt to have a significant effect.

And, before I forget again, a big thank you to everybody for helping out!

I have used several and they all seem to work equally well.