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erooMynohtnA · 01-11-2007, 03:17 PM

Does anyone have any experience with maraging saber blades? One of my teammates seems enamored with the idea of maraging blades, but he's a saber fencer. I've heard they don't last appreciably longer than regular saber blades. Are they worth it? Any comments?

DJ Apostrophe · 01-11-2007, 03:18 PM

Maraging sabre blades are in no way shape or form worth the cost....

the stresses a sabre blade is subject to are vastly different than the stresses of a foil or epee blade...

Maraging sabre blades will last about the same length of time and break in the same fashion that regular sabre blades do.

-w

erooMynohtnA · 01-11-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Apostrophe

Maraging sabre blades are in no way shape or form worth the cost....

the stresses a sabre blade is subject to are vastly different than the stresses of a foil or epee blade...

Maraging sabre blades will last about the same length of time and break in the same fashion that regular sabre blades do.

-w

Yeah, I've heard they break at the tang just as easily as any other blade.

bigdawg2121 · 01-11-2007, 04:10 PM

Furthermore they're simply unnecessary...you can go to FIE tournaments without them. Also, I'm pretty sure that there are virtually no high level saber fencers that use them (yes, I know this doesn't prove or disprove anything) and that they're mostly designed to wring more money out of saber fencers and parents that don't know any better.

CvilleFencer · 01-11-2007, 04:32 PM

As stated, maraging saber blades just add weight and cost. I don't know any saberist that uses them. I take that back, I know one, but he just likes the feel of the heavier BF blades and has more money than sense...

Barry Paul · 01-11-2007, 06:22 PM

Maraging sabre blades are in no way shape or form worth the cost....

the stresses a sabre blade is subject to are vastly different than the stresses of a foil or epee blade...

STRESS IS STRESS

Maraging sabre blades will last about the same length of time and break in the same fashion that regular sabre blades do.

COMPLETELY UNSCIENTIFIC AND BASED ON A MISS-UNDERSTANDING OF ENGINEERING PRINCIPLES.

Yeah, I've heard they break at the tang just as easily as any other blade.

CERTAINLY NOT TRUE OF B.F. OR LEON PAUL MARAGING SABRE BLADES, BLADES BREAK AT THE TANG DUE TO FAULTY MANUFACTURE. LEON PAUL WILL EXCHANGE ANY SABRE BLADE SOLD UNDER OUR NAME WHICH BREAKS AT THE TANG WITH SOME TAKE OFF ALLOWANCE FOR USE.

Furthermore they're simply unnecessary...you can go to FIE tournaments without them. Also, I'm pretty sure that there are virtually no high level saber fencers that use them (yes, I know this doesn't prove or disprove anything) and that they're mostly designed to wring more money out of saber fencers and parents that don't know any better.

LIKE WELL MADE FOIL AND EPEE MARAGING BLADES WELL MADE MARAGING SABRE BLADES WILL LAST 5 TO 7 TIMES LONGER THAN SABRE BLADES MADE FROM CARBON STEEL. SO IN THE U.K. WERE MARAGING FOIL AND EPEE BLADES ARE NOT COMPULSORY MOST COMPETITIVE FENCERS HAVE CHANGED TO USING MARAGING BLADES BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THE LONG TERM CHEAPER. THIS IS BORN OUT BY OUT SALES RECORDS, DESPITE THE REMARK ABOVE THE INTRODUCTION OF MARAGING BLADES IS DESIGNED TO WRING MORE MONEY OUT OF SABRE FENCERS DUE TO THEIR LONG LIFE SUCH PURCHASES ARE FINANCIALLY NEGATIVE TO VENDORS.

As stated, maraging saber blades just add weight and cost. I don't know any saberist that uses them. I take that back, I know one, but he just likes the feel of the heavier BF blades and has more money than sense...

MARAGING STEEL IS ONLY 2% HEAVER THAN CARBONS STEEL AND CERTAINLY OUR MARAGING SABRE BLAES ARE NO HEAVIER THAN OUR NORMAL ONES.

BLADES BREAK FROM DEFECT AT THE SURFACE OF THE BLADE. THESE FAULTS ARE CAUSED EITHER BY MANUFACTURING FAULTS OT DAMAGE TO THE SURFACE DURING USE. ONE A DOMINATE DEFECT HAS FORMED A CRACK WILL DEVELOP AND THIS WILL GROW AT A RATE DETERMINED BY THE STRESS APPLIED AND THE k1c VALUE OF THE STEEL. MARAGING STEEL HAS A MUCH HIGHER K1C VALUE AND THE CRACK GROWS SLOWER UNTIL CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OCCURS.

The real problem with sabre blades is that with changes of flexibility (so they are as stiff as epee blades) and the change of timing, sabre is fenced more like epee. There is now no logical reason for the F.I.E. not to insist on maraging sabre blades on the same grounds that they insist on maraging baldes from the other two weapons. Plus we should increase the size of the point so that it is the same size as the epee point. I would recommend that as soon as possible the F.I.E. introduce maraging sabre blades with epee sized Diameter points (probably screwed on like the present foil and epee tips.)

erooMynohtnA · 01-11-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Paul

Yeah, I've heard they break at the tang just as easily as any other blade.

CERTAINLY NOT TRUE OF B.F. OR LEON PAUL MARAGING SABRE BLADES, BLADES BREAK AT THE TANG DUE TO FAULTY MANUFACTURE. LEON PAUL WILL EXCHANGE ANY SABRE BLADE SOLD UNDER OUR NAME WHICH BREAKS AT THE TANG WITH SOME TAKE OFF ALLOWANCE FOR USE.

For that offer of exchange, we're talking about the same break point, right? Right where the shoulder of the blade meets the tang? If that's the case, I'll certainly tell my friend about it. He'd probably be a lot more likely to buy a maraging from you guys.

Purple Fencer · 01-11-2007, 07:47 PM

Barry....take off the caps lock....you're yelling...

erooMynohtnA · 01-11-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Barry....take off the caps lock....you're yelling...

Mayb he had the radio turned up.

bigdawg2121 · 01-11-2007, 08:12 PM

Well Barry I'm sure we've all heard plenty of "unscientific" claims that are widely followed and seem to hold up to anecdotal experience. I've never tried a maraging blade that didn't feel heavier and I've never run into any top fencers (either here in the US or internationally) that use them...care to present some counterexamples please?

Alex_Paul · 01-12-2007, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Barry....take off the caps lock....you're yelling...

I think he is doing that to differentiate between his text and the text he is quoting. A change of colour rather than the use of caps lock may be appropriate next time! I still havn't worked out how to use thsi multi quote thing!

Quote:

I've never tried a maraging blade that didn't feel heavier

He has already stated, they are 2% more dense, any other change in the weight or feel is down to the design rather than the material. If you look here: http://www.leonpaul.com/acatalog/Sho...lades__27.html in the additional info for each blade it shows the weight of each blade we will stick it in a table when I get a chance to make comparrisons easier. BF maraging sabre 159g other BF blades of the same design 154g (so circa 2% difference) and other blades are different weights based on their design not material.

Quote:

and I've never run into any top fencers (either here in the US or internationally) that use them...care to present some counterexamples please?

I don't know any off hand. Maybe the problem is the widley held misconception that they don't last any longer?! Or that they dont ask their sponsors for them because they are not mandatory I will ask Mariel and Becca when they pop in in 2 weeks time.

Barry Paul · 01-12-2007, 03:40 AM

Quote:

I've never run into any top fencers (either here in the US or internationally) that use them.

I have never said that maraging blades are better in that they make you a more successful fencer, however fencers are creature of habit, Top fencers (except in USA and U.K.) do not have to pay for there blades so their choice is not based on economical consideration. For the up and coming fencers training three nights a week would save money by using well made maraging blades. The same as in foil and epee.

Quote:

For that offer of exchange, we're talking about the same break point, right? Right where the shoulder of the blade meets the tang? If that's the case, I'll certainly tell my friend about it. He'd probably be a lot more likely to buy a maraging from you guys.

For the last few year as there have been sold some coloured/gold sabres which were light not too expensive but had a tendency to break at the tang, so I suspect do many of the blades made in China, this is just poor manufacture. I have never seen one of our Etoile (or maraging) sabre blades break in use at this point. That is one reason that colleges and school might well save money in the long term using these blades. For individuals they will still save even more money if they change to maraging.

On a question of safety it is quite clear that the more the frequency of blades breaking the greater the chance of injury. (Unfortunately it is the opponent that gets injured otherwise every one would be fencing with maraging blades) So at some point the F.I.E. will be forced to introduce maraging sabre blades and at this point they will probably introduce a much larger tip held on I suspect with a thread like the foil and epee.

When they do become regulation the likely hood is that the quality will improve and some of the so called maraging blades might well be found out to be standard blades stamped incorrectly.