NAC-F (Tucson)

[Ordway]

For everyone who discovered (as I did) that the venue hotel is already full....

... just go directly to the Hotel Arizona web site (I googled it) and make reservations directly with them. They do have rooms available (or at least did this morning; of course they don't specify how many are left). I did that and got a room for the SAME PRICE as what THS offers!

Just wanted to pass that on, as it is ever so much more convenient to be right next door vs. several blocks/miles away.

[fencerwallet]

Expedia had rooms at the Hotel Arizona for $97.

[teacup]

Now that event days are posted, people may let their extra nights go. (Although some may wait until times are posted to finalize their plans.)

Sometimes the headquarters hotels are available at a cheaper rate if you are willing to buy them with air through companies such as Expedia, Orbitz or Travelocity. (For example: The Adam's Mark for the Denver JO's was available cheaper as a package.)

[fatfencer]

Fatfencer is very close to tucson!!!

Fatfencer is attending the event YAY!!!

I hope everyone comes it will be lots of fun. There will be random fencers selected for strip teases before the final bouts of each event.

So much for my PSA lol.

Seriously folks, I do hope everyone attends. Locally we are all doing whatever in our power to make this a fun, exciting and well run event.

FF

PS:Any advice on making it out of the first run of pools?

[Dax]

I plan to go for DIV 1 ME if I can afford it. I need to hurry up and decide if I can.

[brtech]

PS:Any advice on making it out of the first run of pools?

1. Show up at the strip on time
2. Fence every bout with your number in it
3. Make more touches than the other fencers
4. Win more bouts than the other fencers

Seriously though, the thing you need to do is score touches, no matter who you are fencing. In pools, anyone can get touches on any other fencer. You need to get more. If you are behind 4:0, get a touch. Get 2 touches. Hell, get 5 touches. Getting out of pools depends on indicators as well as wins.

You'll probably have some very fine fencers in your pool. Go after them. Score touches.

One more thing: adapt fast. If if something you tried didn't work on your opponent the first time, you MIGHT try it one more time, but if it didn't work the second time, do something different. If the director calls something you don't agree with DON'T DO IT AGAIN, even once. You only have 5 touches until its over, don't waste them on things that aren't working for you.

Oh, maybe one MORE thing. Don't lose a touch on bad equipment. Clean your tips, tighten your screws, adjust your shims, check your weights BEFORE you go. When you get on the strip and hook up (with epee or foil), depress your tip and make sure you get a light BEFORE you step over to the director for checks. I'm always surprised how many fencers get a yellow card for a bad weapon or cord that they could have found before the director found it. You don't get a card for (politely) asking to change something that isn't working. You get the card for presenting it non working to the director.

[brtech]

PS:Any advice on making it out of the first run of pools?

1. Show up at the strip on time
2. Fence every bout with your number in it
3. Make more touches than the other fencers
4. Win more bouts than the other fencers

Seriously though, the thing you need to do is score touches, no matter who you are fencing. In pools, anyone can get touches on any other fencer. You need to get more. If you are behind 4:0, get a touch. Get 2 touches. Hell, get 5 touches. Getting out of pools depends on indicators as well as wins.

You'll probably have some very fine fencers in your pool. Go after them. Score touches.

One more thing: adapt fast. If if something you tried didn't work on your opponent the first time, you MIGHT try it one more time, but if it didn't work the second time, do something different. If the director calls something you don't agree with DON'T DO IT AGAIN, even once. You only have 5 touches until its over, don't waste them on things that aren't working for you.

Oh, maybe one MORE thing. Don't lose a touch on bad equipment. Clean your tips, tighten your screws, adjust your shims, check your weights BEFORE you go. When you get on the strip and hook up (with epee or foil), depress your tip and make sure you get a light BEFORE you step over to the director for checks. I'm always surprised how many fencers get a yellow card for a bad weapon or cord that they could have found before the director found it. You don't get a card for (politely) asking to change something that isn't working. You get the card for presenting it non working to the director.

[VorpalCat]

Advice so nice he said it twice!

[qatet]

When you get on the strip and hook up (with epee or foil), depress your tip and make sure you get a light BEFORE you step over to the director for checks. I'm always surprised how many fencers get a yellow card for a bad weapon or cord that they could have found before the director found it. You don't get a card for (politely) asking to change something that isn't working. You get the card for presenting it non working to the director.

Well, yes and no. Common ruling that I've heard is that once anything is hooked in on the strip it is "presented" and cannot be changed without penalty if it's not working.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Well, yes and no. Common ruling that I've heard is that once anything is hooked in on the strip it is "presented" and cannot be changed without penalty if it's not working.

This is my interpretation when I'm refereeing.

Why?

Because you're slowing down the event.

Buy a test box like a responsible fencer and check your stuff before and after each bout with your own equipment.

In a similar vein, I don't care if you use the weight and shim assigned to me, but wait till you've unhooked, gotten your test box, and I'm done using them for the next bout... you can even ask me for them, and when I'm done using them, I'll hand them to you... just don't go far with them.

-w

[brtech]

This is my interpretation when I'm refereeing.

Why?

Because you're slowing down the event.

Presumably, you are using:

t.86 The fencers, completely equipped, with all equipment
conforming with the regulations (cf. t.43–t.45) and ready to
fence, must be present at the time and place appointed for the
beginning of the pool, match, or bout of direct elimination, or
at the time appointed for the checking of their equipment
before their bout (cf. t.43), as well as during the competition,
whenever the Referee requires it.

Having a weapon or a body cord, not conforming to the rules around the strip is not an offense. You must have equipment that does conform to the rules when it is checked.

Agree that if they aren't ready when you have given them what you think is sufficient time to get ready, then you could award a card on t.86, but changing a weapon, for example, after hooking up, but before presenting it would not seem, all by itself, to warrant such an offense. If a fencer hooked up immediately after the prior bout completed, tested, discovered a bad weapon, picked another up and had it connected in, say 30 seconds, would you card them for delay of bout? If he was ready well before the other fencer, would you award the opponent a card for delay also?


FWIW, I see this problem as often with fencers on their 5 or 6th bout. Just because everything seemed to be working at the end of one bout, doesn't mean its working at the beginning of the next bout. Trust, but verify.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Presumably, you are using:

Having a weapon or a body cord, not conforming to the rules around the strip is not an offense. You must have equipment that does conform to the rules when it is checked.

Agree that if they aren't ready when you have given them what you think is sufficient time to get ready, then you could award a card on t.86, but changing a weapon, for example, after hooking up, but before presenting it would not seem, all by itself, to warrant such an offense. If a fencer hooked up immediately after the prior bout completed, tested, discovered a bad weapon, picked another up and had it connected in, say 30 seconds, would you card them for delay of bout? If he was ready well before the other fencer, would you award the opponent a card for delay also?


FWIW, I see this problem as often with fencers on their 5 or 6th bout. Just because everything seemed to be working at the end of one bout, doesn't mean its working at the beginning of the next bout. Trust, but verify.

No, I give the card when someone plugs in, walks up to the middle of the strip, hits the ground, doesn't get a light and starts turning back around...

and no, I'm not using the t.86 card, I'm using t.45... which says nothing about it being 'presented to the referee'... the wording is "If a fencer appears on the strip".

You've plugged in?

You've appeared.

Here's your yellow card, go buy a test box after the bout.

-w

[brtech]

and no, I'm not using the t.86 card, I'm using t.45... which says nothing about it being 'presented to the referee'... the wording is "If a fencer appears on the strip".

You've plugged in?

You've appeared.

Here's your yellow card, go buy a test box after the bout.

but that is not "delay of bout", which is what you said you were carding for. It seems to me that with that logic you could very well hand out a card for the fencer having a defective weapon next to the strip even though he never plugged it in. He is plugged in, he appeared. The weapon is defective. The point is, I think, that he did not attempt to fence with it. But then the other circumstance of having it plugged in would also not be a violation. He did not attempt to fence with a defective weapon either.

I'm somewhat playing rules nit picking here. I actually agree testing should be done with your own test box before hooking up. But I don't think a fencer who catches a problem before you do, doesn't attempt to fence with broken equipment and doesn't actually delay a bout, should get penalized. However, if that's the way you call it, I'll have to remind my fencers of that. There is the sig of having two opponents on the strip, one on it and one next to it.

[oiuyt]

There is the sig of having two opponents on the strip, one on it and one next to it.

Which is probably one of the most harmful commonly-repeated expressions in fencing. What a way to give each of your fencers a crutch that will compromise their development and performance throughout their career.

Taking an adversarial role with regards to the referee -- even in jest or semi-private -- is a really good way of getting into the wrong mindset when fencing. It is rarely worthwhile (or effective) to try to beat the "opponent next to the strip."

Learn to adapt to what the referee is calling, absolutely. View him/her as an opponent and life gets much harder. It also automatically gives one more reason why failure is that much more acceptable or one more place where blame can be (usually mis-) allocated.

-B

[brtech]

Which is probably one of the most harmful commonly-repeated expressions in fencing. What a way to give each of your fencers a crutch that will compromise their development and performance throughout their career.

Taking an adversarial role with regards to the referee -- even in jest or semi-private -- is a really good way of getting into the wrong mindset when fencing. It is rarely worthwhile (or effective) to try to beat the "opponent next to the strip."

I'm not sure I agree with this, but then, I don't think opponent in this context is adversarial. Sure, you are competing against him/her, and your objective is to vanquish them, but you do it honorably, and when you are done, you salute, shake hands and thank them for fencing with you. The director is not your friend, but he/she is not your enemy either. Your fencing opponent is not your enemy, he is merely your opponent for this bout.

You must "beat" the person on the side of the strip in the sense that he/she is interpreting rules, and no two people agree on rules interpretation. The director isn't going to accept your interpretation (nor should they). The thing is, there is no right or wrong here, there is the human foible. Every successful fencer fences the director. They attack, defend, advance, retreat, parry and riposte. They disguise their intentions and their moves. They feint, recover, and attack again. The moves and the skills are different, the intention is the same.

And at the end, you salute, shake hands and thank them. You competed honorably. What is different? Why is it not reasonable to consider the director an "opponent"?

[oiuyt]

I believe that the approach epitomized by the quoted statement -- and indeed, this very widespread comment in specific -- are detrimental to the performance of fencers that buy into it to any degree. Including as a semi-true "joke".

As such I think it a poor choice for a coach to use it to one of his/her fencers. I think it a poor decision for a fencer to repeat it, or worse, think it at a competition.

As a fencer one should not be looking to vanquish the referee, no matter how honorably. S/he is NOT an opponent. When s/he becomes an opponent then the fencer will tend to perform sub-optimally. The relationship with the opponent (on the strip) is not, nor should it be, particularly similar to that with the referee.

-B

[DJ Apostrophe]

but that is not "delay of bout", which is what you said you were carding for. It seems to me that with that logic you could very well hand out a card for the fencer having a defective weapon next to the strip even though he never plugged it in. He is plugged in, he appeared. The weapon is defective. The point is, I think, that he did not attempt to fence with it. But then the other circumstance of having it plugged in would also not be a violation. He did not attempt to fence with a defective weapon either.

I'm somewhat playing rules nit picking here. I actually agree testing should be done with your own test box before hooking up. But I don't think a fencer who catches a problem before you do, doesn't attempt to fence with broken equipment and doesn't actually delay a bout, should get penalized. However, if that's the way you call it, I'll have to remind my fencers of that. There is the sig of having two opponents on the strip, one on it and one next to it.

Once again, I AM NOT CARDING FOR DELAY OF BOUT. I am carding them because they appeared on strip with a non-conforming piece of equipment.

I do not card the fencer that is there at the end of the previous bout, takes the reel from the person unhooking, hooks in quickly, and tests his/her weapon on the floor before bringing it up to me, realizes it doesn't work, and grabs the spare that is sitting on the floor right next to him/her.

I card the person who takes forever getting to the strip, plugs in to the reel, walks up to the center of the strip, and hits the floor before giving me the weapon, and then when it doesn't work starts to saunter back to the end of the strip to figure out where they left the rest of the weapons they brought to the competition.

If someone is quick about it and makes an effort to keep things moving, carding them is only going to slow things down.

I'm not out to throw cards at people. I'm out there to finish the pool / DE Table.

I hope I clarified my thoughts on this matter.

-w

[Wise-Epeeist]

Seriously though, the thing you need to do is score touches, no matter who you are fencing. In pools, anyone can get touches on any other fencer. You need to get more. ... Getting out of pools depends on indicators as well as wins.

Likewise, keep your opponent from gaining touches.

Every touch creates a ripple effect through the indicators overall. Screwing up someone else's day (by keeping him scoreless) CAN be a benefit. ... In the best case, an opponent sliding down a position in the results might allow someone else (you?) to rise a slot.

At the very least, however, keep in mind that all the other fencers NEED to score touches against you as much as you need to score against them -- they're worried about their indicators, too. So don't let a 1-0 loss become a 2-0 loss just because you stupidly charged in. Keep your head.

[seven6ty]

I do not card the fencer that is there at the end of the previous bout, takes the reel from the person unhooking, hooks in quickly, and tests his/her weapon on the floor before bringing it up to me, realizes it doesn't work, and grabs the spare that is sitting on the floor right next to him/her.

I card the person who takes forever getting to the strip, plugs in to the reel, walks up to the center of the strip, and hits the floor before giving me the weapon, and then when it doesn't work starts to saunter back to the end of the strip to figure out where they left the rest of the weapons they brought to the competition.

So then you're actually carding them for the amount of time they take (A delay of bout), not as to whether or not they actually appear on strip with non-conforming equipment, since the people in both examples bring non-functional equipment to the strip.

I'm sorry, I just hate referee's who say that plugging in is the same as presenting malfunctional weapons or even worse "appearing on strip with non-functional equipment", as by that definition, you can potentially even card a person for having a malfunctional second weapon, even if they don't use it at all.

[oso97]

I do not card the fencer that is there at the end of the previous bout, takes the reel from the person unhooking, hooks in quickly, and tests his/her weapon on the floor before bringing it up to me, realizes it doesn't work, and grabs the spare that is sitting on the floor right next to him/her.

I card the person who takes forever getting to the strip, plugs in to the reel, walks up to the center of the strip, and hits the floor before giving me the weapon, and then when it doesn't work starts to saunter back to the end of the strip to figure out where they left the rest of the weapons they brought to the competition.

Exactly my protocol. Heck, I even PROVIDE a test box for fencers to use once they have unhooked from the strip in order to test their weapons. Interestingly enough, I'd say a good 50% of the one's that at the end of a bout, automatically reach for the testing gear before unhooking don't bother to make use of it when I ask them to unhook and use the test box.

I'm sorry, I just hate referee's who say that plugging in is the same as presenting malfunctional weapons or even worse "appearing on strip with non-functional equipment", as by that definition, you can potentially even card a person for having a malfunctional second weapon, even if they don't use it at all.

Well, you're going to be in a world of hurt. Because, plugging in IS equivalent to "appearing on strip." Actually, if you want to get techinical about it, you report to strip, and THEN plug in, so once you've stepped on the piste with intent to fence, you are under the referee's observation, supervision and responsibility. And subject to penalties for bad equipment (among other things).

And if you want me to cut you some slack, then be prepared to make the lives of everyone around you easier - namely, don't hold things up. Sure, if things are running smoothly, and the fellow is down at the end of the strip and quietly tests his weapon after quickly hooking up, there's a decent chance that I'll practice the art of graceful obliviousness, and "not notice it" while I turn instead to check the other fellow, or fiddle with my score card, or something.