sports psychologist

[Coby]

H guys does anyone or has anyone worked with a sports psychologist for their fencing ,if you do not approach the piste In the right frame of mind you can have all the talent in the world but its not going to do you a lot of good.My son is 13 but struggles to take his club form to the competitions it seems that he just cannot throw the switch .I now stay away from the piste during fights,and I never comment on any thing I may have seen unless he brings up the subject (which he rarely does) During club nights he really turns the wick up and will put to shame other fencers well beyond his years,any suggestions would be greatly appreciated Many thanks and a happy new year to you all.

[RebelFencer]

It really depends on the person. Some fence better when there's no pressure, some work better under pressure. Some work better emotionless, some work better under specific emotions. For example: I fence best angry for some reason. A sports psychologist might be able to help, I haven't really dealt with one, but really it's just a matter of finding what conditions your son fences best under and having him create them at a tournament.

[Bayou Bum]

I fence best angry for some reason.

LOL ... you must have been very angry these last few months. You have been fencing very well

[counterattack]

I have two suggestions. One is give it some time, unless he seems to really be letting it get to him. Experience will close the gap between practice and tournament and it is something you gain only the hard way. Suggestion two is to make sure that there aren't other differences between practice and tourneys that might partly explain the performance issues. Specifically make sure he is getting proper sleep and proper food on tourney days. Low blood sugar destroys your ability to think well. My lack of experience caused me to be nervous, being nervous kept me from eating, not eating kept me from fencing like I could. I would actually be thinking in the middle of bouts "why am I even here? I hate this, I just want it to end". It was like sudden onset depression. Later on when I looked back at my day I couldn't understand who the person was that thought such hopeless thoughts, but it wasn't something a psychologist could help since there was a physiological root. When I got my food in order I never had those thoughts again.

Good luck to you and your son!

[Fencergrl]

I've been using CD's put out by a sports psychologist, and they have helped me a great deal.

I used the same kind of tools on my own when playing sports and I also found it helped me then (even moreso).

This may or may not help your son. Everyone is different. Kids his age can often be inconsistant.... this isn't necessarily a sign he will never do well and it needs to be fixed. It may simply be the path he needs to take.

I've seen kids do poorly season after season, then something changes and it all clicks into place. Sometimes playing different sports helps, sometimes it's just a matter of development.

Talk to him... see how he feels and what he would like to do (if anything).

Part of developing as an athlete is discovering what you need to perform at your best.

[HDG]

I've been using CD's put out by a sports psychologist

Can you provide some more info?

[ampersand]

I would have loved to have had a sports psychologist a few years back, but money was an obstacle. I ended up working through a few mental training books and cleaning up my tournament preparation (food, routine, and the like). That seemed to help a lot.
I have one friend who, after years of frustration and odd results (tended to do much better in WCs vs NACs; better results in Sr vs Jr), went to a sports psychologist and she feels it has really been the difference. But this was after years of national-level competition.
It takes a while to get used to the competition aspect of the sport... give it some time. He's young. Like Fencergrl said, talk to him. Best of luck to you both!

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Part of being 13 is being CRAZY.

Part of being new to a sport is that you're new, and you don't have the experience of having fenced a million tournaments, and to know what works and what doesn't.

So some aspects of sports psychology are going to take time, no matter what.


But one of the parts of sports psychology that might be a great place to start that helps most people in the begining--- is to have a routine. Getting a bagel/juice/coffee/whatever in the morning, getting to the tournament early, doing the same exercises/streches/etc in the same order, or whatever it is that the individual needs/wants/feels is important can make things easier.

If you son is having a hard time with freaking out and not doing his best during tournaments, really the only thing that will REALLY fix it is time, and going to tournaments. But if he follows a routine at practice, and follows the same routine before tournaments, at least that will offer a feeling of sameness.

[parrythis]

I fence best angry for some reason.

Sounds like somebody needs a hug.

[eac]

One sports psychologist came to our club at one point. It was completely retarded. She droned on about the importance of having good goals to set, what's a goal? what's a good goal?
kid: uhh... i don't know. uh. winning is good.
Psychologist: Goals goals goals goals.
kid: Barf.
Kids proceed to do ridiculously well at nationals despite being completely disgusted with dumb lady.

Kind of turned me off to sports psychologists as a group of people, though I do believe that people (myself included) get very screwed up in the head about tournaments, and undoing their screwed-upness is a big part of learning to win.

[eac]

Sounds like somebody needs a hug.

Oh no! You've found his kryptonite!

[Allen Evans]

Every successful fencer I've talked to tells me that fencing is a "mental sport". Every less-than-sucessful fencer I've talked to agrees with that.

What's the difference? The successful fencers bring existing mental toughness to the sport, or they develop it along the way, or they specifically train themselves to approach the sport mentally. The less-than-successful fencers may often train as much, and have good physical skills, but fall down in their mental preparation.

My experiance with referring fencers to a sports psychologist seems to be that if the fencer buys into the idea, it's a tremendous help to them, but if the fencer doesn't, it's difficult for the psychologist to be much help. Part of the problem seems to be the nature of sports psychology itself, which is still relatively new (I bet it would be hard to find referanaces to it even 40 years ago). There don't always seem to be good metrics about what works and what doesn't. Sports psychology sometimes seems to be more art than science, though I think that there are some gifted artists out there in practice.

When Iwas fencing (considerably older than 13) I got a lot of milage out of books oriented towards sports psychology, such as the "Inner Game of Tennis" and "Mental Toughness Training for Sports". I probably would have benefited -- when I was fencing -- from some work with a sports psychologist, though I had some good coaches that brought that approach to lessons and practice.

With all that said, I have gut feeling that what you are seeing, Coby, isn't a "sports psychology" problem, but a "growing up" problem. 13 is a tough age, and inconsistant results are probably to be expected. I've seen a lot of young fencers be geniuses at 10, fall apart at 13-15, and then pull themselves together at 16 to 18 and become very fine fencers. Your milage may vary, of course.

I wouldn't be calling in the mental cavalry unless you see other issues outside of fencing or your 13 year old is expressing a lot of frustration with his/her performances and is asking for the help.

Allen Evans

Of course, all the usual caveats apply here. I'm not a doctor, have no training as a doctor, and I'm only expressing an opinion, not fact. Other people may be smarter than me, and have better opinions. Or then again, they may not.

[Durando]

One sports psychologist came to our club at one point. It was completely retarded. She droned on about the importance of having good goals to set, what's a goal? what's a good goal?
kid: uhh... i don't know. uh. winning is good.
Psychologist: Goals goals goals goals.
kid: Barf.
Kids proceed to do ridiculously well at nationals despite being completely disgusted with dumb lady.

Kind of turned me off to sports psychologists as a group of people, though I do believe that people (myself included) get very screwed up in the head about tournaments, and undoing their screwed-upness is a big part of learning to win.

Part of the screwed-upedness you identify comes from the fact that kids broadcast instead of receive. Very few are above scoring points to amuse the peanut gallery. Those kids who went on to do well don't disprove what the sports psychologist was saying; it only means that they weren't comfortably publically expressing their goals.

Now, it certainly was up to your psychologist to set up the right environment for this to happen.... Anyway, many competitive kids are social twits, especially when together. They always know best. There's always one more dumb joke to be made. As a coach you have to see past their arrogance. They have Special Needs, etc. They don't realize that nobody, really nobody, gives a sh!t about their performance, even the nice psychology lady.

[Coby]

Thanks for the comments,I should have perhaps added that he has been fencing for 5 years now and three years in competition. Up until the last year he was never out of the L4 and then went up an age group which is when it started ,with a iffy decision going against you then another and then the frustration sets in, concludes with a bad day and then another which then it seems to become a confidence issue .He certainly has the talent and as mentioned 13 is a tough age for some.

[Dr Epee]

James Kinney is a psychologist and hypnotherapist in Charlotte, NC. He is also an A rated epeeist. He has put out a self-hypnosis CD specifically for fencers. My son has used it and I believe he found it helpful for developing focus before and during a tournament. You might want to give it a look.

http://www.charlottehypnotherapy.com/fencing.htm

[Timacheff]

Dr. John Heil is the USFA sports psychologist, who primarily works with the elite and high-performance athletes at various events. He is also the chair of the USFA Sport Science, Safety and Technology Committee.

If anyone would like his email address, please contact me directly and I'll be glad to provide it to you.

Serge (serge@fencingphotos.com)

[eac]

it only means that they weren't comfortably publically expressing their goals.

No. I based my assessment of whether they were disgusted with the lady with private conversations, not group interactions. They really did think she was completely useless.

[piste off]

Every successful fencer I've talked to tells me that fencing is a "mental sport". Every less-than-sucessful fencer I've talked to agrees with that.

What's the difference? The successful fencers bring existing mental toughness to the sport, or they develop it along the way, or they specifically train themselves to approach the sport mentally. The less-than-successful fencers may often train as much, and have good physical skills, but fall down in their mental preparation.

When a Bible on fencing is written, Allen should be an Apostle and these should be the first words of his Gospel.

People underestimate how important the mind is in fencing... in particular how it impacts performance in tournaments versus practice. Unlike the physical aspects of fencing, you can't see what is going on in someone's head so perhaps an expert might help (if your kid supports or is asking for it).

Rick

[Fencergrl]

Can you provide some more info?

I use Terry Orlick's CD's "Practicing in the Zone" and "Competing in the Zone". I listen to them nightly prior to competitions.

It's not a quick fix solution, but for me a good, positive pre-competition habit. It amazes me how my focus and control tightens up in drills leading up to competition when I listen to them.

My mental game has improved, but it was something that developed slowly over time and it is still something I am working on.

What is really cool is when you start fencing in the zone. For me, these CD's helped me get there.

My coach recommended them when I first started competing. She used them herself when she was having trouble in competitions early on.

Just google the name "Terry Orlick" and I'm sure you'll find them, if not PM me.

Remember.... working on your mental training is something that takes time, however it is something you can do when the salle is closed or when you're not doing anything else.

[chefencer]

When a Bible on fencing is written, Allen should be an Apostle and these should be the first words of his Gospel.

FencingJesus must still be on Birthday Vacation as he missed his cue...
*Looks @ watch*