Are most scoring machines permanently wall mounted in the US?

[Alex_Paul]

Simple question I guess! In the UK most are battery operated and have to be cleared away after each session to make way for other sports. I gather it is different in the USA.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

Simple question I guess! In the UK most are battery operated and have to be cleared away after each session to make way for other sports. I gather it is different in the USA.

same in the US.

[DJ Apostrophe]

In most clubs that have permanent spaces, the machines tend to be attached to the wall... It is the case in our club...

10 strips:
8 Favero Full Arm 05s mounted on walls / wood columns
2 Favero Full Arm 01s (practice only strips, these strips are in between two other strips and the machine is mounted on the reel shelf on one end, a full arm 01 repeater on the other end)
the 8 competition strips have Favero Full Arm 01 repeaters on each end (mounted over the strip on the reel shelf).

-w

[qatet]

FAP has all wall-mounted boxes, with an overhead bungee system (our ceilings are VERY high). Every once in a while, if there's lots of bouting and no lessons or classes, or if one of the wall-mounted units gets cranky, we'll bring out a couple smaller boxes on a stand, with floor cords.

To be honest, all of the clubs where I compete have mounted boxes. The only exception are particularly large tournaments, where the organizers rent a school gym and bring in everything. I would guess that this is relatively typical in the mid-Atlantic, where most clubs have permanent facilities.

[rcmatthews]

Ours are suspended from a cable, because are building is rather warehouse like, and so there isn't a wall next to every strip. But I would say the majority that I see are portable.

[SJCFU#2]

My observation has been that smaller clubs frequently share their spaces with others so all their scoring machines and reels need to be packed away when not in use. These clubs tend to have relatively little equipment - often only enough for one strip (or at least that is all that will be dragged out and set up on a regular basis).

Larger and more competitive clubs often have dedicated spaces of their own so they will mount their machines on the wall or suspend them from the ceiling. These clubs often have more much more equipment since they desire to support as many strips as possible.

I suspect the majority of clubs probably fall into the former category however the later category is more likely to be represented by members of this forum.

[Purple Fencer]

At SwordPlay we fene with four I beams supporting the floor above us...like fencing in a forest.

We have 2 boxes hung on each pole (4 strips).

The San Diego Fencing Center has 6 (I think) strips. it's one big, open room...the boxes are mounted on slm pole stands at the center of each strip.

[brtech]

My guess is that around 2/3 of the clubs listed in the USFA directory of clubs have permanent dedicated space, and virtually all of those have wall or overhead mounted machines. The remaining ones do not have dedicated spaces and must have completely portable machines. There are probably a bunch of other fencing programs not listed, which probably don't have permanent space. Also consider that the permanent ones are larger, and have more than one machine. I'd guess my 2/3 number is on the low side for wall mount (that is, 2/3 of the machines in the U.S. are wall or overhead mounted).

Nearly every club that has permanently mounted machines takes some of them down several times a year to support a large event. Rare is the club that has extras for this purpose, but some divisions have enough equipment for all but the largest division events.

Clubs that don't have permanent space usually don't have problems powering boxes. I've only been in one circumstance where power was an issue, and that was in a tournament held in a hotel facility where power was available but expensive, and they used battery powered machines for the strips not near a wall.

If you are trying to judge the value of battery power, it's pretty low.

[CvilleFencer]

As has been stated, I think it depends on if it is a dedicated space or if it is school or shared space. At the colleges that some of my fencers coach at, they have shared space and the machines are cleared away after practice (one club even has an old bugeye LP machine!).

At CFA, we have two overhead reels with wall mounted boxes and then a third portable strip that we bring out as needed. At RFC, there are 4 permanently mounted overhead strips and two strips that are removable.

As to other clubs in the area, if it is a dedicated space, all the ones I know of have fixed strips and all the ones that share space have portable strips that are set out as needed.

I like the easy of permanently mounted overhead systems but since we have a lot of tourneys in the division, some that can be fairly large (10+ strips) I like to have a couple of portables for using at demos and loaning to the division for its larger events.

My dream salle would have reels and wiring ran under the sprung floor and just lights mounted at the strip. The actual scoring would be done at a central server, either one I built myself or a premade one like the awesome Uhlmann super box. Less out and about in the fencing area to take abuse the better in my opinion. The downside of course would be that if the server went down, no strips so even in the dream salle I would probably have a couple of strips with portable boxes just to be safe.

[KD5MDK]

I can't think of any clubs in Texas which I've been at which had permanently mounted boxes, even for the few with dedicated space. They all use mains powered boxes on rolling carts. Then again, I haven't been to all clubs in Texas.

[Morgant]

Every club with dedicated space I know of has mounted scoring machines, while all of those who share a space set theirs up temporarily and must remove them after each practice.

[Alex_Paul]

So if they are portable does that mean you have power cords trailing from the walls to the middle of the strips?

I am trying to figure out why we don't sell that many scoring boxes in the US at the moment.

Most clubs in the UK use LP boxes because they use a lantern battery that can last for up to a year of normal club use. It saves having to trail power cords about and makes setup faster.

What do you think holds back the LP machines in the USA?
Is it their old image or simply that X club has always bought from Y supplier and they don't want to change.

Someone mentioned trolleys, are these purpose built or something from a hardware store?

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

So if they are portable does that mean you have power cords trailing from the walls to the middle of the strips?

For the most part, yes. Of course in many cases it's not all that difficult since the machine can be set fairly close to a wall outlet, thereby minimizing the need for long extension cords.

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

I am trying to figure out why we don't sell that many scoring boxes in the US at the moment.

For one thing a number of relatively inexpensive "club" machines, including the Eigertek Eclipse, Favero FA-01, the St Geroge SG-11 and TCA "Club" machine, were able to able to establish their presence before Leon Paul USA even got started, thereby creating a situation where you are effectively trying to break into an established market. For another thing, I believe that until recently the 3-W club machine was priced somewhere around $500 - most of the competitors were closer to $400.

For what it's worth, I would say that the first machine the students would grab used to be an old Leon Paul 2-weapon club machine - this despite the fact that it was already out of date (and this was before the latest timing changes). Then we got our first Eigertek, which not only was up-to-date but also smaller, lighter and could run off a 9-volt battery, and it immediately became the machine of choice for the students.

The 6-volt lantern batteries are probably also overkill. Modern machines that use LED's rather than incandescent bulbs could probably run for weeks off a home-made 12-volt battery pack made from flashlight batteries.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by Alex_Paul

So if they are portable does that mean you have power cords trailing from the walls to the middle of the strips?

Yes. Most U.S. facilities, even the shared ones, have lots of outlets, and long extension cords are cheap and easy to obtain

I am trying to figure out why we don't sell that many scoring boxes in the US at the moment.

It used to be cost/value. I think now that it's mostly that it has no advantage over the SG, which it is competitively priced at, or the Favero, which usually is even less.

Most clubs in the UK use LP boxes because they use a lantern battery that can last for up to a year of normal club use. It saves having to trail power cords about and makes setup faster.

That just doesn't mean much to most clubs. Wall mounts don't matter at all. Portable machines need floor cords run out, so 3 cords vs 2 is not much difference.

What do you think holds back the LP machines in the USA?
Is it their old image or simply that X club has always bought from Y supplier and they don't want to change.

I think they are a bit clunky looking myself. I do think that many clubs by machines from the same vendor they get most of their equipment from. Do remember that in nearly every case, that means a hefty discount.

Someone mentioned trolleys, are these purpose built or something from a hardware store?

There are a few kits out there. A lot of clubs that use them build their own. It is kind of tricky to get a reliable, well working bungee system set up, but it's a whole lot cheaper than reels, and easier to self maintain.

[qatet]

I've been considering buying battery-run boxes for a college club that I coach. It comes down to LP or Eigertek. They cost about the same, so my next criteria is how easily the timing can be updated.

Well, and if I'm still pissed at my LP shoes for falling apart after 10 weeks, that might also steer me towards Eigertek... sigh.

[griffindm]

My Uni club purchased several LP club boxes at the special Nationals price this summer, and have been very pleased with them. I am partial to them, having used similar machines when I started fencing over 30 years ago. The battery capability is nice to use on a large gym floor, where you want to setup strips in the middle as well as the edges. That said, most clubs without permanently mounted machines usually only setup a couple of machines in a shared space along the edges, closer to power outlets.

[Chafunkta]

We rent our space, so our strips are floor reels and portable boxes put on piano stands. For some reason, we have pianos in our gym.

I think the portable strips are much more convenient, because most of the clubs in the south are too small to run a large tournament of their own. The portable boxes allow a tournament to be held at rented out gyms in order to have more room.

[Sboard1019]

My Club bought the SG-12 Machines mostly because we get a discount through our supplier. I really like the boxes so far and have no problem with them at all. We also have a LP box from the 80's that still works which is impressive.

As we are a college club and cant afford much gear as it is, we mostly buy the cheapest gear we can find for club equipment. I would prefer to buy LP gear because it lasts forever (the only things we have that are old and functional are LP gear), but we simply cant afford it.

[500gms]

We have 18 permanent metal strips. All of them Have Favaro 5(?) machines suspended from the ceiling. The ones with the timer and scoring built in. every strip has repeater boxes at each end.

we selected Favaro because they were inexpensive, reliable, easy to repair and readily available. We are very happy with our selection.

I believe LP's problem is 1. cost and 2. availability.
If more dealers in the US carried LP products more fencers/ club owners would be aware of the products. In New Jersey we have a lot of Dealers and I believe Clubs (30) High Schools(50) and colleges (6 or 7) might be inclined to purchase your machines if the were available, could be seen somewhere : Absolute?)and the price were right.

[SJCFU#2]

One other factor may be the cost associated with keeping machines up-to-date.

Depending on the model and vendor a new timing chip for a Favero costs between $35 and $45 and an Eigertek cost even less (the chip is free - you only pay for shipping). Compare this to the cost of updating a Leon Paul - the update for a C90 3-weapon machine lists for $131.20 at LP-USA and no update are listed for C605 or C620 club machines.