Geez America, Quit Fornicating!

[RebelFencer]

NEW YORK (AP) -- More than nine out of 10 Americans, men and women alike, have had premarital sex, according to a new study. The high rates extend even to women born in the 1940s, challenging perceptions that people were more chaste in the past.

"This is reality-check research," said the study's author, Lawrence Finer. "Premarital sex is normal behavior for the vast majority of Americans, and has been for decades."

Finer is a research director at the Guttmacher Institute, a private New York-based think tank that studies sexual and reproductive issues and which disagrees with government-funded programs that rely primarily on abstinence-only teachings. The study, released Tuesday, appears in the new issue of Public Health Reports.

The study, examining how sexual behavior before marriage has changed over time, was based on interviews conducted with more than 38,000 people -- about 33,000 of them women -- in 1982, 1988, 1995 and 2002 for the federal National Survey of Family Growth. According to Finer's analysis, 99 percent of the respondents had had sex by age 44, and 95 percent had done so before marriage.

Even among a subgroup of those who abstained from sex until at least age 20, four-fifths had had premarital sex by age 44, the study found.

Finer said the likelihood of Americans having sex before marriage has remained stable since the 1950s, though people now wait longer to get married and thus are sexually active as singles for extensive periods.

The study found women virtually as likely as men to engage in premarital sex, even those born decades ago. Among women born between 1950 and 1978, at least 91 percent had had premarital sex by age 30, he said, while among those born in the 1940s, 88 percent had done so by age 44.

"The data clearly show that the majority of older teens and adults have already had sex before marriage, which calls into question the federal government's funding of abstinence-only-until-marriage programs for 12- to 29-year-olds," Finer said.

Under the Bush administration, such programs have received hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding.

"It would be more effective," Finer said, "to provide young people with the skills and information they need to be safe once they become sexually active -- which nearly everyone eventually will."

Wade Horn, assistant secretary for children and families at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, defended the abstinence-only approach for teenagers.

"One of its values is to help young people delay the onset of sexual activity," he said. "The longer one delays, the fewer lifetime sex partners they have, and the less the risk of contracting sexually transmitted disease."

He insisted there was no federal mission against premarital sex among adults.

"Absolutely not," Horn said. "The Bush administration does not believe the government should be regulating or stigmatizing the behavior of adults."

Horn said he found the high percentages of premarital sex cited in the study to be plausible, and expressed hope that society would not look askance at the small minority that chooses to remain abstinent before marriage.

However, Janice Crouse of Concerned Women for America, a conservative group which strongly supports abstinence-only education, said she was skeptical of the findings.

"Any time I see numbers that high, I'm a little suspicious," she said. "The numbers are too pat."

Especially you 1940s people, seriously.

Taken from: http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/12/19....ap/index.html

[dcmdale]

Especially you 1940s people, seriously.

And you think those numbers significantly change somehow for people from the 1910s, 20s, 30s? If you get into the popular literature of any time period, there always seems to be this underlying assumption that, "Yes, we are doing it; but our parents weren't like that!"

My great-great grandfather was a country preacher (and born seven months after his parents married, hmmm....). My great Aunt used to tell me how he always knew when there was a dance in town. He would routinely get awakened by couples about 1 a.m. to legitimize what they were about to do, then by other couples at 3 a.m. to legitimize what they just got done doing.

It is quite common among couples who married during the 20's and 30's to consider that they got married at first intercourse, not at their marriage ceremony. They won't tell you that, of course, but if you ask them about it as part of the culture, they will tell you about it, then when you check the wedding date they tell you with the date on the license...

More interesting to me than the raw numbers would be to get a breakdown on the numbers that were simply sexually active vs. those that simply didn't wait for the ceremony and whether the latter group changes as a function of time between engagement and marriage. This intrigues me somewhat because of a comment in the Mishnah about a practice (I'm paraphrasing) where marriage was essentially separated from the wedding. In effect, at betrothal ("engagement") you were married for all purposes. ("Breaking off an engagement" required a divorce). The wedding itself was a celebration of coming together as a family.

I suspect that if we had the breakdown above, we would see an increase since the 70's in the number of those that were simply sexually active. I also suspect that our current cultural fascination multi-month or multi-year engagements dooms whatever good intentions might otherwise be there.

[RebelFencer]

haha, you gave this a serious reply.

[jessicasimpson]

abstinance only sex education is stupid, it has always done more harm than good, I have yet to here a reason why it works.

[RebelFencer]

abstinance only sex education is stupid, it has always done more harm than good, I have yet to here a reason why it works.

The only education that works is putting the fear of Jesus Christ into the hearts and genitals of all the youth.

[telkanuru]

It seems 9 out of 10 scientists agree: people like having sex. Amazing!

[dcmdale]

haha, you gave this a serious reply.

Not the first time. Likely won't be the last.

[jeff]

Well, it was a good reply and made interesting reading...

Now, going further back, there was this traditional practice in the Colonies called "bundling"...

[Inquartata]

I thought that was when thou didst buy thine postal delivery and carriage services together...

[jeff]

In both Cases, someone is being Screwed, hey?

(trying out that funky Capitalization of most Nouns that they used to use...)

[dcmdale]

Now, going further back, there was this traditional practice in the Colonies called "bundling"...

That and the fact that my 5th and 6th Great grandmothers were named Freelove for less than pious reasons.

[TrainingDummy]

"Free love is a knife through the jugular vein, son!"

[RebelFencer]

"Free love is a knife through the jugular vein, son!"

More like, "through the juggalo vain!" Amiright!!

[jeff]

That and the fact that my 5th and 6th Great grandmothers were named Freelove for less than pious reasons.

That's a remarkable family story, not least of which for the fact that your family has enough retained history to preserve a story so many generations.

[introspective]

I like your reply Jeff. But I have to agree that when the numbers are too high I become suspicious. To wit: in 1993, the Surgeon General announced that 1 of 5 people were schizophrenic. I find that very difficult to believe.
Knowing that most Americans are insane is one thing, but I think we mean it differently.


[I like the change in smilies - I was getting bored with the others]

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


I recently saw a webpage (and got the text translated to me by Mrs. G) describing a decidedly different take on the whole subject, as it was done in some Japanese town.

There, the city elders (some time ago, the whole thing was a tradition by now) had decided that trying to stop teenagers from having sex was futile, but there were very real dangers involved with sex if it was left entirely up to the teenagers themselves. They considered the worst danger to be the competition in order to get sex, not the sex itself (provided that protection was made available). Therefore, it was considered a worthy goal for the community to stop the dangers inherent in sex planned by those not experienced in it, while not stopping the sex in itself.

Their pragmatic decision was then to make sure that every teenager would be sure that he (and she, but that is less important from the danger angle) would get sex, and that the teenagers would know that this would at the latest happen at some time that the individual teenager could predict, and that it would not be too far away. The line of reasoning was that if they knew that they would get at least some nookie within a not-too-distant future, they would not do dumb stuff on their own to get it, and possibly hurt themselves and others in the process.

How to reach this worthy goal? Well, this town had decided upon an annual lose-your-virginity day, held in the spring/summer (from the looks of the photos accompanying the article) where the last year´s crop of teenagers would lose their virginities en masse, and under the auspices of their elders so that no guy could do something wrong to the gal allotted to him unnoticed.

The whole ceremony started with the girls dancing as a group on Main Square, quite scantily dressed. The rest of the town was there looking on, and the guys were standing to attention (har, har) close by. The latter were also scantily dressed, but did not to seem to doing any dancing (thankfully, given how well the average guy dances). Instead, they were holding torches to illustrate the girls dancing as the day dragged on and darkness fell. In the beginning, the girls were wearing a long shirt, but after a bit of dancing it was taken off and the girls were only wearing mawashis - the kind of belt that a sumo wrestler has - just as the boys. In order so that even the most thickheaded spectator would grasp what the whole thing was about, the girls were dancing around a 2 meter high, quite realistic, ph*llus.

The whole dance was intended to get the guys horny enough (quite unnecessary, IMO) so that they could get rid of that pesky virginity once the dance had ended.

A big mat had been arranged for the final part of the ceremony. 500 beginners went off to some warehouse (from the looks of the accompanying video clip) with a judo-like mat put out in advance. There, they paired up and finalized everything, so to speak. It did not appear that the teenagers had any say themselves in the pairings - that seemed to be taken care of by the elders. There was an MC calling out orders, quite necessary given the lack of expertise of the participants. What they lacked in training, they sure made up for in enthusiasm. Wow - those gals squealed worse than an army of WS fencers!

Some personal reflections:
1. Just imagine the last week of school just before the whole thing taking part! The teachers must have had a hard time focusing their student´s attention on studies, and not on the coming thing.
2. Imagine being in the group doing the pairing-up. If you thought competition for the right partner to the School ball was intense, just think about this! How, does one actually go around to make the best possible pairing-up possible, given all the untold number of possible combinations, and undoubtedly attempts from teenagers themselves and their parents to exert undue influence?
3. Imagine being a teacher, and part of the paring-up committee! If one of the boys in your class misbehaves, you could tell him: Shape up, or I will see too it that you get Ugly Betty! THAT is a big stick to wield.
4. That Japanese place sure has a pragmatic view of things, this would never go over in the USA.
5. What if they would have invited Dick Cheney to grace the proceedings with his presence? Would his ticker have managed the sight?
6. Imagine the stage fright of doing it - for the first time - in front of your parents, and most of the town!
7. Imagine the talk among the elders the following days! Parents and grandparents bragging about whose offspring conducted themselves the best!

Sure is fun to get to know some of the stuff written on Chinese webpages once in a while! Mrs. Gustafsson found this particular tidbit from a webpage that collects newsworthy stuff (politics, human interest, what have you) from the entire globe.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Inquartata]

In some parts of the US, I am afraid that the "elders" would just hit on the idea of providing the sex themselves...

[Slim]

Hi!


I recently saw a webpage (and got the text translated to me by Mrs. G) describing a decidedly different take on the whole subject, as it was done in some Japanese town.

...SNIP.

Sure is fun to get to know some of the stuff written on Chinese webpages once in a while! Mrs. Gustafsson found this particular tidbit from a webpage that collects newsworthy stuff (politics, human interest, what have you) from the entire globe.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

And you believe this to be true? I usually take what the Chinese say about the Japanese (and vice versa) with a little skepticism.

[oiuyt]

And you believe this to be true? I usually take what the Chinese say about the Japanese (and vice versa) with a little skepticism.

But he read it on the INTERNET!!!! It's just GOTTA be true!

-B

[oiuyt]

According to Finer's analysis, 99 percent of the respondents had had sex by age 44

So that means that 1% of the surveyed population was still virgin at age 44 (or still claiming said status, more accurately).

Goes against the base premise of the Steve Carrell movie from a year or two ago...

-B