"Crashing" another regions SYC's: Worth it or not?

[lurkerdad]

Fencing Parents:

Barring a scheduling conflict with your local SYC, do you think it's worth it to travel across the country to attend another region's SYC?

[fencerwallet]

Last year my son fenced at only one SYC. We made family trips for that, the NAC and Nationals. We made the travel worth it. There is no way we would go across country just for cheap points or "practice". But he's fortunate that he belongs to a pretty competitive club where he gets alot of fencing in every week that is usually alot tougher than he sees in his main age category at any tournament. We do have family about 1 hr. away from the venue in NH so we thought about making that a "holiday get together" visit, but it is unlikely. Even better, the "local" SYC is very close this year, so we only have to worry about fencing related travel to Denver, Tucson, and Miami in 2007.

[Soberin]

As I have stated before, there are no rules about this stuff. Fencers and their families simply must do what is best for them, as long as it is within the rules.
The entire system of SYCs has now become institutionalized as a second tier NAC system for Y10 through Y14. If you want to fence all five, fine. If you want to fly to Texas or California, or the other way, no one will stop you. Look at the fencers from the East who went to Kansas two years ago, or those from California who flew to CT to get points. Obviously, the idea behind the creation of the RYC/SYC system was to avoid extra travel, but once points are at stake, all bets are off. Y10 and Y12 points are nice for bragging rights, but Y14 points will get you qualified for the Cadet JO's if you have enough, so it does have some real value. If you live where there is weak youth fencing, it may be worth the travel costs, if not, then it may not be any better experience than your local events.

[foildad]

I agree with Soberin. It's situational. A Y12 can't fence any cadet events w/o Y14 points, so there's another valid reason to travel for points. Generally speaking, though, chasing points in the "Y" age groups is pretty silly.

[fencerwallet]

Y10 and Y12 points are nice for bragging rights, but Y14 points will get you qualified for the Cadet JO's if you have enough, so it does have some real value. If you live where there is weak youth fencing, it may be worth the travel costs, if not, then it may not be any better experience than your local events.

The reality is that if a Y12 kid is not good enough to get points in a decent Y14 tournament, why spend the money to travel where there is "weak youth fencing" in order to get cheap points so he/she can fence cadet? Kids are not at an appropriate skill level to be fencing in cadet events if they can't compete in Y14. In such case, the money is better spent on lessons.

[JMcC]

Really would liked to have chosen "all of the above" for just the first two listed responses, but that was not an option.

[Mauler]

Over the course of past 2 seasons, I've hit (S)RYCs in NY, CO, CA, CT, PA, and a few others that I don't remember at the moment. During that time, I noticed quite a few families that seem to share the similar travelling pattern as mine. Aside from non-NAC, non-(S)RYC type events, I also tend to maintain a somewhat unusually extensive refereeing activities (in terms of frequency and service area). What's remarkable is that I see these same travelling families at those "insignificant local level events" as well.

Without having spoken to them directly regarding this topic (I try not to associate too much with costumer base) another pattern I did notice was that they seem to travel to events (even NY-to-CO 1 weekend, and NY-to-CA next weekend with last minute on-site registration) if there is an indication that:

1. they will get to fence the same competition whom they will have to face at whatever the important event of their choosing (i.e. Summer Nationals)...
2. they will be able to compete under similar conditions as their target event (i.e. same refs, same bout committee, same protocols, etc)...
3. they get to visit Nanna...
4. they really need those points...

I even heard a RYC parent say once that they chose to travel to a particular far away RYC just so that the child can check out a college campus. I believe the fencer was competing in multiple Y-12 events that weekend.

Oh, and at most of these events I see the coach(es) doing their thing to "prep" the referees for the target event months down the line. Surely their travel must've been financed by the families as well...

[lurkerdad]

Really would liked to have chosen "all of the above" for just the first two listed responses, but that was not an option.

Sorry, I thought about adding options mixing 1 and 2, and 1 and 3, but I thought it might make it too complicated. I guess it skews the yes answers to "all of the above." Oh well, you live you learn...

[lurkerdad]

Last year my son fenced at only one SYC. We made family trips for that, the NAC and Nationals. We made the travel worth it. There is no way we would go across country just for cheap points or "practice". But he's fortunate that he belongs to a pretty competitive club where he gets alot of fencing in every week that is usually alot tougher than he sees in his main age category at any tournament. We do have family about 1 hr. away from the venue in NH so we thought about making that a "holiday get together" visit, but it is unlikely. Even better, the "local" SYC is very close this year, so we only have to worry about fencing related travel to Denver, Tucson, and Miami in 2007.

Thanks for the input. In my case, I don't think we'll be going to the NH event either. As other people have pointed out, while Y14 points have some real value, Y10/Y12 points for now are mostly for "bragging" (ok, motivational) purposes.

That said, I can see why some parents/kids from here out West may think it worth it to go, for foil anyway:

1) It seems to be the only SYC that is early enough for any points/ratings changes to be accounted for in time for the NAC F. Every little bit helps when it comes down to the initial seeding...

2) Looking at the confirmed entries right now, the Y10 and Y12 field is weaker than what you would get at the PCS SYC.

(Of course, as I write this, those Y12 parents may have already noticed the discrepancy and may be late-registering for the event right now..!)

[fencerwallet]

so we only have to worry about fencing related travel to Denver, Tucson, and Miami in 2007.

I should have said, "D$e2n5v0e0r, T$u2c5s0o0n, and M$i3a5m0i0 in 2007".

[Soberin]

[QUOTE=lurkerdad;510768]Thanks for the input. In my case, I don't think we'll be going to the NH event either. As other people have pointed out, while Y14 points have some real value, Y10/Y12 points for now are mostly for "bragging" (ok, motivational) purposes.

That said, I can see why some parents/kids from here out West may think it worth it to go, for foil anyway:

1) It seems to be the only SYC that is early enough for any points/ratings changes to be accounted for in time for the NAC F. Every little bit helps when it comes down to the initial seeding...

2) Looking at the confirmed entries right now, the Y10 and Y12 field is weaker than what you would get at the PCS SYC.

(Of course, as I write this, those Y12 parents may have already noticed the discrepancy and may be late-registering for the event right now..!)[/QUOTE

Please note, that in regards to Point Number 1 above, NONE of the SYCs will have any bearing on the seeding for NAC F.The YDC considers all the SYCs to be conceptually viewed as "one single event" and the points earned at the best SYC will NOT be added to the rolling points list until just before the Summer Nationals. It is just before the SN that the SYC points from the previous season roll off. Therefore, don't make any decisions as to travel to a SYC based on possible seeding for NAC F. I may be wrong, but that is how it was in previous years, so please feel free to confirm this with the YDC and/or national office.

[lurkerdad]

[/QUOTE

Please note, that in regards to Point Number 1 above, NONE of the SYCs will have any bearing on the seeding for NAC F.The YDC considers all the SYCs to be conceptually viewed as "one single event" and the points earned at the best SYC will NOT be added to the rolling points list until just before the Summer Nationals. It is just before the SN that the SYC points from the previous season roll off. Therefore, don't make any decisions as to travel to a SYC based on possible seeding for NAC F. I may be wrong, but that is how it was in previous years, so please feel free to confirm this with the YDC and/or national office.

Thanks for the clarification! I assume that any letter rating one gets at an SYC this early would have an effect by the time the NAC F rolls around, though? (And yes, I understand you can get that letter from other high-level Youth tournaments, not just at the SYC.)

[fencerwallet]

Please note, that in regards to Point Number 1 above, NONE of the SYCs will have any bearing on the seeding for NAC F.The YDC considers all the SYCs to be conceptually viewed as "one single event" and the points earned at the best SYC will NOT be added to the rolling points list until just before the Summer Nationals. It is just before the SN that the SYC points from the previous season roll off. Therefore, don't make any decisions as to travel to a SYC based on possible seeding for NAC F. I may be wrong, but that is how it was in previous years, so please feel free to confirm this with the YDC and/or national office.

I thought they updated the youth points from the earlier SYCs prior to the NAC "F" last year (but not the West SYC because it was less than a month before the NAC). Maybe not...

Corinne is now doing the points and is very efficient and fast at updating them, so this is a good question to raise.

[lurkerdad]

I thought they updated the youth points from the earlier SYCs prior to the NAC "F" last year (but not the West SYC because it was less than a month before the NAC). Maybe not...

Corinne is now doing the points and is very efficient and fast at updating them, so this is a good question to raise.

As you know, this year the only SYC that's more than a month before the NAC F is the New Hampshire one.

I would ask, but being pretty much a newbie I don't know anybody but Corinne. And I don't think the YDC or RYC policy is really part of her job, if I understand it right.

[Soberin]

Last year any classification changes earned at RYC or SYCs were made valid at that time, as at any other tournament. Only points were held back until all the SYCs were completed, and the highest result was added to the NRPS just before the SN. I imagine the same will apply this year--classification changes will be made, but no points will be added before NAC F---however, if the USFA wants to update the NRPS for Y10 through Y14 in the four day period between the end of the April SYC events and the start of NAC F, then seedings will be affected. Ask Corinne.

[fencerwallet]

The Handbook Sec. 4.5.2 and 4.5.3 gives the point cycles for Y12 and Y14. So the updates occur after each NAC and then the final after SN. Thus, Y12 won't be updated until some time after the NAC"F" and before SN. Y14 will get updated again after JOs.

[Soberin]

That's probably true. I would just check specifically re the SYC points. If they do as they did last year, the SYC points rolled off and were updated just before the SN. I think it will probably be the same this year, in that the April Youth NAC is only four days after the last SYC, so no SYC points will count for the April NAC. However, you never know, and maybe they will do things differenly this season.