Whipe out Israel!

[OROD]

In Ahmadinejad's latest rants he says how Israels days are numbered.

The question is, why does Israel not do something about this? I mean, if I was the leader of a country and another state's leader publicly says how our days are numbered and how they intend to destroy us... I'd take that as pretty close to a declaration of war. I especially wouldnt wait around as those lunatics get closer to developing nuclear weapons.

I mean, it's one thing for some random deuche bag to be shoting their mouth off. But, it's another thing for the leader of a country to do it. After all, what a leader says is usually considered to be policy for a state. And if what he says is basically "we're going to destroy you", how is that different from "we declare war on you"... other than it gives you time to drop a couple thousand tons of bombs on their asses before they can do it to you?

.

[mrbiggs]

You spelled wipe and douche wrong.

LOLOLOLOL.


Maybe Israel feels that they have enough on their hands. Or maybe they're just used to getting death threats from nearby countries.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

You spelled wipe and douche wrong.

LOLOLOLOL.

Or... maybe I intentionally misspelled those words to see who would be the first deuche bag to complain about it instead of posting on topic!

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Maybe Israel feels that they have enough on their hands. Or maybe they're just used to getting death threats from nearby countries.

You mean, like we got used to having Bin Laden rank about how he was going to attack us, and did nothing about it? Like that?

I think it's sad how people are so willing to ignore little things like Iran's leader wanting to destroy your country, but then someone cuts you off on the freeway and you get all bent out of shape. If a country is not willing to defend itself, it doesnt deserve to exist!

.

[introspective]

it's shooting their mouth off. But other than that. They've been quarreling with their neighbors for 60 years. Live with that. They also ranted about wanting to destroy America, and we've listened to that rant for just as long. For more than 40 years we've basically managed to maintain some form of existence with them. I wouldn't get over heated about it.

Just fence! Fence ! Fence.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by OROD

Or... maybe I intentionally misspelled those words to see who would be the first deuche bag to complain about it instead of posting on topic!

Then I guess I win.

Originally Posted by OROD

You mean, like we got used to having Bin Laden rank about how he was going to attack us, and did nothing about it? Like that?

Kind of.

Originally Posted by OROD

I think it's sad how people are so willing to ignore little things like Iran's leader wanting to destroy your country, but then someone cuts you off on the freeway and you get all bent out of shape. If a country is not willing to defend itself, it doesnt deserve to exist!

.

Do you think that Isreal should invade Iran, or what? Who would win from that?

A giant war encompassing most of the Middle East isn't worth pride.

[Purple Fencer]

If Israel ever decided to unleash it's full military might against Iran's....Tehran would be a parking lot real fast.

If Ahmadinutjob starts real military action directly against Israel, he;d done

[OROD]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Do you think that Isreal should invade Iran, or what? Who would win from that?

A giant war encompassing most of the Middle East isn't worth pride.

Pride? No. I was thinking more like self-defense. If someone's coming at you with a knife, do you wait until they stab you to do something?

.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by OROD

Pride? No. I was thinking more like self-defense. If someone's coming at you with a knife, do you wait until they stab you to do something?

.

No.

If someone says "I'm going to stab you" do you shoot them?

What if they have 5 friends sitting right next to them?

[TrainingDummy]

I wouldn't say Israel is "doing nothing." They have repeatedly displayed their military strength to the rest of the region by military exercises and invasions, most recently in Lebanon, got the U.S. to finance their war machine, and developed a nuclear arsenal. They are more prepared for war on a one-on-one basis, more so than any other nation in the region. HOWEVER, if the other nations choose to team up on Israel and "whipe" them out, they are in for a world of hurt.

EDIT: In the last sentence, by "they" I meant the Israelis.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

If someone says "I'm going to stab you" do you shoot them?

Not unless they came at me with it. However, I might forcibly remove their knife. You would agree that I'd be justified in doing that, right? And if you do, why not agree that Israel has the right to forcibly remove the weapons that Iran is threatening them with?

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

What if they have 5 friends sitting right next to them?

Same as above. On the other hand, if they are all threatening me, then I would have no problem pulling out my gun. I'm not going to wait until 6 knife wielding attackers get the first shot at me. If they initiate the agression, it'd be my right in defending myself with deadly force.

.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by TrainingDummy

I wouldn't say Israel is "doing nothing."..

Bullies dont take you seriously until you bloody their noses. The only reason the arabs havent tried to eradicate Israel recently is because of what happened to them the last time they tried. And that was before Israel got their nukes.

.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by OROD

Not unless they came at me with it. However, I might forcibly remove their knife. You would agree that I'd be justified in doing that, right?

What does that even mean? How are you going to forcibly remove their knife without getting stabbed?

(The analogy still carries over into the Israeli situation)

[OROD]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

What does that even mean? How are you going to forcibly remove their knife without getting stabbed?

(The analogy still carries over into the Israeli situation)

I'd hit them on the wrist with my stick.

.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by OROD

I'd hit them on the wrist with my stick.

.

"Oh my God! That hurt! You know what? You can have my knife. Here you go. I'm sorry for threatening you."

"Oh, dear! Isreal! Your bombing campaign crippled several of our military bases. You know what? You're right. We're going to stop our nuclear program. None of our allies will attack you. While we're at it, let's all convert to Judaism. Happy Hannuka."

[Phaeton]

Ahmadinejad just wants to get attention away from the fact Iran is making a nuclear program to himself personally. It's an ego thing as well as a diversion tactic hence the "Holocaust Never Happend" conference and threats against Israel.

[pigeonmeister]

This conference, on holocaust denial, is vile- especially with the inclusion of an ex KKK grand wizard as a contributer. It is important to note several points though:

1. This was chiefly for domestic consumption- it has, however, largely failed to draw much attention, support, or interest amongst the populace.

2. This isn't really a threat, this is Ahmadinejad trying to establish his thesis, that Israel is an illegimate state because it was founded through the myth of genocide, as credible. I don't think he is going to get very far in this respect either. He believes that the ideas underpinning the establishment of Israel will unravel, in this context it is too hasty to see his words as a statement of military intent or prediction of genocide. Still vile words I grant you.

3. A lot of people within the Iranian govt object to Ahmadinejad scoring another unnecessary own goal (including many within the foreign ministry who were compelled to organise it).

[scrapinpeg]

Originally Posted by pigeonmeister

This conference, on holocaust denial, is vile- especially with the inclusion of an ex KKK grand wizard as a contributer. It is important to note several points though:

1. This was chiefly for domestic consumption- it has, however, largely failed to draw much attention, support, or interest amongst the populace.

2. This isn't really a threat, this is Ahmadinejad trying to establish his thesis, that Israel is an illegimate state because it was founded through the myth of genocide, as credible. I don't think he is going to get very far in this respect either. He believes that the ideas underpinning the establishment of Israel will unravel, in this context it is too hasty to see his words as a statement of military intent or prediction of genocide. Still vile words I grant you.

3. A lot of people within the Iranian govt object to Ahmadinejad scoring another unnecessary own goal (including many within the foreign ministry who were compelled to organise it).

About that conference, I dunno if it counts as "vile." Stupid, yes. Foolish, certainly. Ignorant and counterproductive, by all means. But to be vile implies some moral reprehensibility, and I don't see how a bunch of morons denying the historical fact of the holocaust is any more reprehensible than a bunch of morons denying the historical fact of the moon landing.

What perplexes me is why, in Europe, denying the holocaust is a criminal offense. It's not exactly seditious language, nor does it seem to incite immediate violence. It's just stupid people blathering about something stupid.

Criminalizing it has the effect of legitimizing their claims. It gives the perception that the government is trying to hide something. Censorship gives credibility, and forms bonds among fellow-feelers who feel that they know a great truth and are persecuted for it. Furthermore, they never have the chance to decide on their own that their thoughts were ill-informed, because they never got to say them, and never had them properly refuted.

As we say in America, the best response to bad speech is not censorshp, but more speech.

I think these holocaust deniers would never have needed to hold their little conference in Iran if their bonds and beliefs hadn't been strengthened by misguided censorship.

Tellingly, a common response among people in Iran is "why do these fools get to exercise their free speech here, while we ourselves cannot?"

[The Rose Knight]

I would assume that Europe criminalized as another countermeasure against anything that led to or was part of WWII. Not saying that it is particularly effective or not, but that is where I think their mentality was when they did so.

As for denying it being merely stupid, at this time, I'd agree with you. The problem comes down the road when there are no more survivors of WWII and the Holocaust alive to give first hand accounts. When enough time has passed, a nation or a number of nations with a populace who believes that such a thing never happened could certainly come about. Governments who want to deny such things most likely are inclined to do such things. If the population believes it never happened, nobody will be looking for it.

To address the OP, Israel and her neighbors exist in a very tight ballance. What peace there is is very tenuous, so one cannot simply jump to each verbal sortie with miliary force. You can bet that Israel's military preparedness is well maintained and that they are taking Iran's statements into account. But Israel has no desire to fight a multi front war; nobody does, so they won't respond to inflamatory statements with force. Too much at stake.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Warning: Threaddrift ahead

Originally Posted by OROD

Same as above. On the other hand, if they are all threatening me, then I would have no problem pulling out my gun. I'm not going to wait until 6 knife wielding attackers get the first shot at me. If they initiate the agression, it'd be my right in defending myself with deadly force.

Bold emphasis mine.

There is both legal and moral right. They often, but not always coincide and it is not clear which of them you are referring to. I will not deal with the moral issue, but if you were referring to legal rights, your statement may be factually wrong in many jurisdictions. If you were over here and did such a shooting, you would find that the police force would put the task of apprehending you very high on their priority list, and you would get taken in. You would (unless you are cop or bar guard, they get away with all sorts of stuff) get serious jail time. Once in the slammer, the friends of those 6 would be there to greet you, and you would not have a gun at your disposal. Better to throw your wallet and run. Firing a shot in the air might very well land you in jail also, but not for as long.

Remember that this is about legal rights, not moral. Make of it what you want.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Inquartata]

I think that we should hold a conference to discuss the thesis that the Shah of Iran never existed and that the US never supported any former regime inIran, and that Israel never did anything to any Arab persons in Palestine, or took any land from anyone, or invaded Lebanon or Gaza or the West Bank or seized the Golan heights or...

And we could invite various Iranian exiles and maybe that guy who murdered a Sikh after 9-11 thinking he was an Arab, and other assorted purveyors of poisonous whandepootenay. And we should promote it as a "serious debate".

For that matter, we could hold a conference to discuss the proposition that Mohammed was a fictional character invented by the mullahs and ayatollahs of the 20th century in order to obtain power, and that Islam is no more a real historical religion than is Scientology or Jedi-ism...