How do you value the beauty of simplicity?

[BySword]

I am talking about epee, but I belive this applies to all three weapons. So I always read that and I see it my myself that at high level of fencing(Div1 to World champ), the fencing is more simplistic. Many actions are simple or with a feint. An attack with multiple feints is not common. Why is that? and how do you guys value this simplicity?

[eac]

Not true as far as I can tell, from being in Div I and watching WC videos. The technique obviously gets better, and everything gets faster, but I don't think it gets particularly simpler. If anything, it gets somewhat more complicated, since the competitors can do more things automatically. However, because it's so much faster and smaller, you might have difficulty seeing all the feints and extra parries and stuff like that, especially in low-quality video of older world championships. The most recent world championship MF DVD from fencingpictures has very high-quality slow-motion, and you get to see Joppich's blade wiggle in all sorts of directions before hitting-- and you can bet they were intentional.

[erooMynohtnA]

I don't know if I'd call it simplicity. I'd say things are more efficient, so people aren't doing useless things. If you throw in something you don't need, you'll get hit while you're doing it.

[peet]

This weekend some friends/clubmates & I were remarking on how the top fencers can seem to hit with the simplest of actions (albeit at blazing speed) that you or I would never get away with.

Besides the (very important!) issues of how fast, well timed, and in-good-distance their actions are, it is also the other more complex actions they could do that makes it possible to score with the simple action. Because the opponent knows these possibilities, they have to be thinking about them and taking care to defend them; it opens them to the simpler actions as well.

i.e. If you have to put guards at every door & window in the palace, you get more vulnerable to an attack right through the front gate.

Also, the way a good strategist can link one touch to the next can make a very simple action highly effective. In foil, for instance, a successful parry & riposte can cause the opponent to believe that they need to prepare their attack more, so as to be able to avoid the parry. This in turn makes them more vulnerable to a simple attack in prep on the next action.

Just some thoughts...

-p

[T H U G]

o course it look simple to you!
das cuz u just a foo!
but if you was really coo
you would see da complexity too.
Things don't get simpler
dose fencas arent wimpier
dey gets mo complexier
you just cant tell
cuz you dont fence well.
dude, im gettin a dell.

[edew]

It's all in the set-up. You need to get into the right position and moment. To get there, it's a LOT of work. Once there, the final blow is a very simple thing to just stick the blade out.

A novice beginner neglects the set-up and does a simple action for the hit. An intermediate/experienced fencer neglect the set-up, but has complex actions to get the hit.
An experienced master does all the set up and makes a simple action for the hit.

You see, set-ups are malleable and safe. If you don't set it up properly, you can deconstruct it and do it again and no one will be the wiser. But once you got it properly set up, the hit will be almost a sure thing.

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by edew

It's all in the set-up. You need to get into the right position and moment. To get there, it's a LOT of work. Once there, the final blow is a very simple thing to just stick the blade out.

A novice beginner neglects the set-up and does a simple action for the hit. An intermediate/experienced fencer neglect the set-up, but has complex actions to get the hit.
An experienced master does all the set up and makes a simple action for the hit.

You see, set-ups are malleable and safe. If you don't set it up properly, you can deconstruct it and do it again and no one will be the wiser. But once you got it properly set up, the hit will be almost a sure thing.

I agree with entirely with that. After I lost a really close DE in the minute overtime, the director came up to me and said "You know, you were hitting most with simple doubles, you should have done more of those." I tried to explain to him the final attack was the easy part, it was setting it up that was the problem.

Once I got it set up, it really was almost as easy as just sticking my arm out, but holy crap, it was hard to get there (especially because I'm no master).

[Captain Hook]

As fencing technique is done in sequence and attacks are based on the defence your adversary is using. If an attack is complex there are more opportunities for it to not succeed and be exploited.

I guess at high levels it's more a game of good manipulation of distance and time.

for me, the appreciation of simplicity comes in how the attack is prepared