Seattle Christmas Tree

[introspective]

Someone complained about the Christmas tree at the Seattle Airport. I found it terrible even though I'm not a Christian, I can't believe anyone would be so petty as to complain.

Maybe we could adapt the Tree as a symbol of the cold winter weather and leave it at that. With no other religious symbols around.

Spring could be represented with trees in bloom,
Summer could be represented by Green trees,
Autum/Fall could be represented with pumpkins, maple trees,

[jeff]

Well, it is a pagan symbol, after all...

[introspective]

Thanks Jeff for the tipoff.

Yes, we all know of it's roots, but it has evolved into something else, but maybe as the pagans would say "it's time for it to go full circle" back to it's original meaning - "a symbol of winter"?

I like the idea of just symbolizing the seasons. It's also what Japan does for their Tea Ceremonies: each Tea Ceremony is accompanied by a theme and the themes are almost always represented by one of the Seasons through it's Ikibana and the Caligraphy on the wall. The little desserts are also representative of the season.

I would like to see a more modern Tea Ceremony - One representing the Moon, One representing the Ocean or other parts of nature as well.

[Phaeton]

No! Help! The upper/ upper-middle class White American Anxlo-Saxon Protestant is being opressed! They are attacking Xmas! After all, aren't White Christian Americans a repressed minority? All that affirmative action...they are trying to destroy a holiday 80% of the country celebrates. I see we go on a witch hunt. We should hunt down the offending minorities that aren't Protestant or White and get rid of them in a bloody fashon and feed their bodies as foodstamps to the poor!

Seperation of church and state isn't american. Never mind the constitution...that was written by a bunch of mindless deists. It's more state and church, they just didn't the state to be controlled by religion...they didn't want to end up vassals to the pope. Minorities are attacking us. My Christian Bretheren Aid me!



I'm sorry. I don't know what came over. I think I was possesed by Bill O'rielly.

[scrapinpeg]

Wow, that was... weird.

From what I read on AOL news (that amazing source of fine journalism), a local rabbi got upset that there were some Christmas trees at the airport, but no menorah. So he complained. The airport decided not to risk upsetting anyone else by having only jewish and christian symbols, and simply took down the trees. Now the same rabbi is complaining that they shouldn't have taken down the trees, because that makes jewish people out to be Grinches. Meanwhile, the airport is waiting until January to start deciding how to decorate next year, and is just going to stay decoration-free this year.

I'm not a religious person, but I really don't care if an airport wants to put up Christmas trees. It's a nice part of the holiday season for me, and they don't have any religious significance to me. A baby Jesus, now that'd be different. And a menorah is pretty religious, too.

I don't see the problem with non-religious winter holiday decorations. To me, that includes snowmen, jingle bells, all kinds of stuff. And, yes, it includes gaily decorated fir trees.

[introspective]

Maybe if we just used Seasonal decorations it would be better?

[TrainingDummy]

Did anyone else see the news stories on UT's "ACLU Nativity scene" by the Young Conservatives of Texas? I was personally there for part of it, watching them gloat over the ACLU's "attack" on Christmas. We on the left are trying to end a war halfway around the world; I guess the religious right needs some kind of cause, too.

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by scrapinpeg

And a menorah is pretty religious, too.

About as religious as an AK-47.

[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by TrainingDummy

Did anyone else see the news stories on UT's "ACLU Nativity scene" by the Young Conservatives of Texas? I was personally there for part of it, watching them gloat over the ACLU's "attack" on Christmas. We on the left are trying to end a war halfway around the world; I guess the religious right needs some kind of cause, too.

And that my friend, was what my former post was trying ridicule.

Rich WASP Republicans need to stop acting like an opressed minority. You may not be the majority of the population, but you've got the majority of political power and are pretty damned adept at being oppressive yourselves.

[Philistine]

The airport has reconsidered and the trees are already back up.

--Philistine

[jeff]

I read an account in the New York Times where a Hasidic rabbi, I think the one who made the original complaint, said that he never asked for the tree to come down, just to have a menorah added. Quite a reasonable thing for an inclusive society. Oh, and he also said he was getting a lot of hate mail. Not a nice thing.

Is the argument really going to be made that a Christmas tree is not a Christian symbol?

And on that subject: what is right for the home, real, or artificial tree?

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by jeff

{snip}

Is the argument really going to be made that a Christmas tree is not a Christian symbol?

Pretty much.

As Justice O'Connor said: "the Christmas tree, whatever its origins, is not regarded today as a religious symbol. Although Christmas is a public holiday that has both religious and secular aspects, the Christmas tree is widely viewed as a secular symbol of the holiday, in contrast to the creche, which depicts the holiday's religious dimensions. A Christmas tree displayed in front of city hall, in my view, cannot fairly be understood as conveying government endorsement of Christianity."

(Though this was a concurrence, it's a pretty mainstream statement of current law, at least as I understand it).

And on that subject: what is right for the home, real, or artificial tree?

Depends on the home. I always liked going out and cutting down my own tree--but haven't done it since I've lived in the city, and generally prefer an artificial over the hassles of a pre-cut real one. But different strokes...

--Philistine

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by jeff

Is the argument really going to be made that a Christmas tree is not a Christian symbol?

The "Christmas" Tree was a co-opted sybol anyway, and now it has been comercialized into religious insignificance.

PS - I'm glad Her Honor O'Connor agrees

[jeff]

Glad she agrees too.

Ever try using a live tree, and then planting it after Christmas (really: when the ground is soft enough). Root balls are really, really heavy!

Artificial trees don't have the pine smell - what's the point?

[introspective]

Case Closed! The Tree is up.

It never crossed my mind that anyone would want to block tree decorating. Well, he will be known as the Grintch who nearly Stole Christmas

Even though I practice something totally different, I still support the many religions of the world. My deceased Aunt was 1/2 Jewish, so, we have all kinds in my family.

A neighbor invited me to her house for Christmas Buffet. It was a beautiful old Victorian home. There was a georgous tree and other decorations. In the parlor there was a piano, so I played all the Christmas Carols I could while everyone sang. [believe it or not, I could play very well then].

Alls Well that Ends Well!

[Phaeton]

On another note how exactly is someone half jewish? Is it a multiple personality issue? When they are Carl they Jewish but when they are Tom they are Chan Buddhist.

Things get weird when they "are" Mark and are Coptic Christian though.

[introspective]

You a half educated person. It means that their heritage includes people from the Jewish nation.

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by jeff

Glad she agrees too.

Ever try using a live tree, and then planting it after Christmas (really: when the ground is soft enough). Root balls are really, really heavy!

Artificial trees don't have the pine smell - what's the point?

Real trees are truly the more spririted and the choice in my family every year. Though in the last few years I have been really impressed with the quality and life-likedness of many of the artificial trees. And as I complete another season of nailing down a real tree to the floor to prevent a crash and vacuming up bags of fallen needles from the carpet, the couch, the hearth, the kitchen... I'll be wondering if picking up an artificial tree might not be such a bad idea!

Of course, if I did that, I'd be horror struck to realize that I've turned into my Mother-in-Law!!!! So I might just keep the real tree!

[dcmdale]

So goes the yearly debate on holiday decorations.

I was heavily involved in our church's Christmas program for several years. We typically had 15-20K total audience over several 1 1/2 hour performances held in the gym at the church. Every year, we would get several dozen heated complaints about how, "You Christians are trying to make Christmas into a religious holiday." Go figure.

I guess we could ban Yule trees. Then posters of bunnies in the Spring. Then Orange and Black decorations in the Fall. Then any other reminder of the agricultural calendar that has at some point picked up some religious interpretation to some group. Nothing like introducing more dullness into the world.

[jeff]

Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari

Of course, if I did that, I'd be horror struck to realize that I've turned into my Mother-in-Law!!!! So I might just keep the real tree!

As long as you don't do the "plastic covers on the livingroom couch" thing, you'll be okay!