High School Fencers

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by journalmom

I don't know why the tournaments my son's school goes to are mainly organized by the coaches and there is one invitational tournament at the end of the season. But as far as I know, there are no "divisions" or "sections" for fencing in High School. Looking at the number of fencers who attended yesterday, I think there are enough schools to make divisions and have championships.

It was just nice to see a bunch high school kids have a great time while behaving nicely.

High school fencing is very rare in the U.S. There are about 4 or 5 states that have it, and many of those are just 4 or 5 random schools bound together in a league. So no, there are no divisions or sections for high school; there aren't enough high schools.

If you think there are enough or if you want to see championships or something you should talk to the coaches. All the leagues I've heard of are organized mostly by the coaches, so your best bet at getting something done is to talk to them.

I'm not sure exactly how you intend to split it up among 10 teams. However, I can tell you that in Connecticut, we used to have a novice tournament, a junior varsity tournament, and individual and team states (varsity tournament; only 4 fencers per school could compete). Entry was based on the honor system. Schools ran the tournaments individually, and refs were largely alumni, except for states where we usually get a bout comittee and rated refs. This was for 18 teams, with about 160 total in the novice tournament, 120 in the JV tournament, and 160 in states. (Those figures are from memory and aren't at all exact.) I don't know where you live, how practical that would be, or if that's the idea you were thinking of, but it's something to ponder.

[journalmom]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I can tell you that in Connecticut, we used to have a novice tournament, a junior varsity tournament, and individual and team states (varsity tournament; only 4 fencers per school could compete). Entry was based on the honor system. Schools ran the tournaments individually, and refs were largely alumni, except for states where we usually get a bout comittee and rated refs. This was for 18 teams, with about 160 total in the novice tournament, 120 in the JV tournament, and 160 in states. (Those figures are from memory and aren't at all exact.) I don't know where you live, how practical that would be, or if that's the idea you were thinking of, but it's something to ponder.

I'm in NY and I wonder if there's anything like this in NY? Does anyone know?

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I'm not sure exactly how you intend to split it up among 10 teams. However, I can tell you that in Connecticut, we used to have a novice tournament, a junior varsity tournament, and individual and team states (varsity tournament; only 4 fencers per school could compete). Entry was based on the honor system. Schools ran the tournaments individually, and refs were largely alumni, except for states where we usually get a bout comittee and rated refs. This was for 18 teams, with about 160 total in the novice tournament, 120 in the JV tournament, and 160 in states. (Those figures are from memory and aren't at all exact.) I don't know where you live, how practical that would be, or if that's the idea you were thinking of, but it's something to ponder.

They still do this, or at least something very close. I think they even have the states for epee and sabre too. Don't know if the novice and JV do those weapons.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

They still do this, or at least something very close. I think they even have the states for epee and sabre too. Don't know if the novice and JV do those weapons.

Yeah. I was saying "used to" as in I used to. They have states for epee, but not sabre yet.

Novice and JV are still only foil.

[Phaeton]

You'd figure New York of all places would have sabre.

[journalmom]

Originally Posted by Phaeton

You'd figure New York of all places would have sabre.

I think mrbiggs meant in CT.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by journalmom

I think mrbiggs meant in CT.

Indeed I did.

As for New York, I've heard that there's a league in Long Island somewhere.

[introspective]

Many private schools have fencing, but not pubic schools. If you want to break into the public school sector, why not get a few of your best coaches and students to make an appointment with the School District that you live nearest and go in with a plan showing them that the sport is included at the college level.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Indeed I did.

As for New York, I've heard that there's a league in Long Island somewhere.

there are two leagues on long island... one in each county.

Massachusetts has a high school league with 7 schools:
Concord-Carlisle Regional High School
Beaver Country Day School
St. John's Prep (Boys only)
Dana Hall School (Girls only)
Bishop Feehan
The Commonwealth School
Buckingham, Browne & Nichols

There is a program at Northampton High School too, and they have scheduled some dual meets this year (a rare thing for them) as they have a new coach, so they may get folded into the lague as well.

There are at least two other schools that there has been talk about starting a program.

The schools usually have 2 varsity dual meets against each other team, and at the end of the season there is a state championship meet (IFA format), plus assorted JV meets, and (new this year) an individual tournament run as multiple rounds of pools (since 5 touch bouts are what matter in dual meets).

-w

[debrobjosh]

If you are talking high school fencing, you got to mention the NJ High School Fencing Conferences.

The last time I checked there are 47 boys and 47 girl HS fencing teams. See the NJIFA web site for more details.

The public schools are divided into four districts, with an additional private and prep grouping. At the end of the session, there are district championships for teams, squads and individuals, with the top three in each district going to a state fence off. The HS conference also organizes an early season team relay tournament, and a freshman/sophomore tournament.

There are also, I believe, a number of small leagues which overlap the larger HS group. Plus this is all on top of a very active USFA schedule.

There could be questions on how well some of these events are organized and run, but there is a whole lot of fencing in NJ.

[tkexi991]

If the article was meant to focus on Gwinnett, why not a nod to North GA FC?

What I can't stand about a lot of these newspaper article's discussing fencing (so far I can only speak to GA and MN papers) is that they make it seem like there are only 20 kids hanging out. A sort of, "wow, that's different and unusual." I have yet to see an article about any of the High School tournaments down here in GA, or the fact that a certain area has many opportunities to learn or compete. In other words, these articles showcase "a few odd kids having fun," not a "few odd kids having fun and you can too."

[The Rose Knight]

Regarding the article, it followed the standard formula as pointed out earlier. Inaccuracies aside, it did portray it in a friendly light. Not familiar with the team, but the article is sure to be a hit with their families.

As I read the Pirates/Zorro comparison made by one of the fencers in the article, it reminded me of trying to describe the mechanics of an engine to someone who's never turned a wrench. It seemed like she was trying to paint a picture for someone who'd never seen a fencing bout and made a bad analogy.

I do think that in a way, these articles do hurt ultimately; some people who would otherwise be interested in the sport may be put off by the movie comparisons just as much as those drawn in by them may be put off once they realize that the sport is not stylized coreagraphy.

[incarman]

there is much that i could say about the peachtree ridge high school fencing article, but all i will say is this...

It is better to remain silent and thought of as a fool , then to speak and remove all doubt!

as far as georgia high school fencing goes, i'd like to see all 3 weapons fenced and see some more coaches getting invloved!

[Neal]

True, the newspaper article was pretty typical of the medias approach to almost anything--lot of "pretty words" about stuff they know little about. But when you participate in a "lesser known sport", any publicity is good publicity!

I'm fairly familiar with the Peachtree Ridge situation. Dr. Fryman holds that the Georgia High School League would not be a good match for his students. He teaches all three weapons. The team is about 40% epee, 50% foil, and 10% sabre. The High School League is epee only. That would exclude over half the team.

A fencing organization that involves all high school students is a very good idea, but it must be inclusive enough to include all students (which means all levels of ability and all weapons) and a range of coaches and parents.

[BySword]

Originally Posted by Neal

True, the newspaper article was pretty typical of the medias approach to almost anything--lot of "pretty words" about stuff they know little about. But when you participate in a "lesser known sport", any publicity is good publicity!

I'm fairly familiar with the Peachtree Ridge situation. Dr. Fryman holds that the Georgia High School League would not be a good match for his students. He teaches all three weapons. The team is about 40% epee, 50% foil, and 10% sabre. The High School League is epee only. That would exclude over half the team.

A fencing organization that involves all high school students is a very good idea, but it must be inclusive enough to include all students (which means all levels of ability and all weapons) and a range of coaches and parents.

We definitely need more coaches, as of right now, having all three weapons is seemingly impossible without more coaches. Another thing is referee, at tournaments, referees are very scarce; by scarce I meant any bystander is wanted and welcome to ref. People who can actually ref foil and sabre are virtually no-existent in the league (there are a lot more to that too, but I wont mention it here).
The approach to epee first and only in the league can also reduce cost of equipment. Think about the price of an all-three-weapon scoring box and reels(right now, we mainly use some cheap home-made boxes). Now on top of that, the cost of lame; and for sabre, a sabre mask. Right now at high school, we trained the new members for footwork for a couple weeks, then bladeword and a couple weeks, and they are ready for the monthly tournaments. In the process, the only thing they need to pay is the club fee and their own equiment fees. The point is that high school league provides a cheap and convenient way for a total outsider to have fencing fun. The importance is yet to include all three weapons, but include more people into the sport. If one wants to try the other two weapon, they move on to a USFA club, there have all the opportuniies. The high school league plays a very important role to introduce new people into the sport. No offense, not too many people in the area know of the existent fencing clubs, but through the high school league, we introduce fencing to the teenagers who want to play the sport but can not find a way.

[The Rose Knight]

My older son's high school (Sherwood) just started a fencing club. Apparently they had one in years past, as all of the equipment (foils, masks, and jackets) is left over from the old club. Apparently, it's been about twenty years. His friends joined and then begged him to join because he took a beginners class a couple of years ago and currently takes kumdo. Apparently, he's the only one who shows up who has anything even resembling fencing experience. He said that one of the teacher moderates the club, but it sounds like they simply keep an eye on the students rather than provide coaching of any sort. It will be interesting to see if it turns into anything. I hope it does.

RK

[introspective]

Well, I would bring my kids in for some epee action and not worry about his foilists or saborists. They could attend to support their other fencers like set up equipment and tape those floors. But it does sound like there might be other factors involved - another club feud? I would try to get past that and move forward if only to bring your kids level of fencing up. More competitions make a better result.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by BySword

We definitely need more coaches, as of right now, having all three weapons is seemingly impossible without more coaches. Another thing is referee, at tournaments, referees are very scarce; by scarce I meant any bystander is wanted and welcome to ref. People who can actually ref foil and sabre are virtually no-existent in the league (there are a lot more to that too, but I wont mention it here).
The approach to epee first and only in the league can also reduce cost of equipment. Think about the price of an all-three-weapon scoring box and reels(right now, we mainly use some cheap home-made boxes). Now on top of that, the cost of lame; and for sabre, a sabre mask. Right now at high school, we trained the new members for footwork for a couple weeks, then bladeword and a couple weeks, and they are ready for the monthly tournaments. In the process, the only thing they need to pay is the club fee and their own equiment fees. The point is that high school league provides a cheap and convenient way for a total outsider to have fencing fun. The importance is yet to include all three weapons, but include more people into the sport. If one wants to try the other two weapon, they move on to a USFA club, there have all the opportuniies. The high school league plays a very important role to introduce new people into the sport. No offense, not too many people in the area know of the existent fencing clubs, but through the high school league, we introduce fencing to the teenagers who want to play the sport but can not find a way.

Then why not do what other sports do and hire competent directors if that's a problem? I know that you all (GA) have quite a few who can direct foil and sabre.

[BySword]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Then why not do what other sports do and hire competent directors if that's a problem? I know that you all (GA) have quite a few who can direct foil and sabre.

well, I believe funding is the most important factor. still fencing is not yet a sanctioned sport(at least in the GHSFL schools), and we don't get financial support from the school; in terms of funding, we are totally incompetent comparing to football and basketball. besides many ga local tournaments I've been to didnt have official directors either, it's natural for people to think it's not worth it to hire directors for a bunch of high school kids who are fencing for free. after all, the point I need to stress is to have fun, and to have fun cheaply. so having competent directors or not, including foil and sabre or not, are not important(at least at this moment, when we are no capable to do those things), one thing that DOES count is that the kids are having fun fencing, they don't care if it's foil, sabre, or epee. if they want to do the other two weapons, they will be introduced to them one way or the other.
Eventually, the league will grow, more hearted coaches and their clubs will participate, schools will sanction fencing as a sport. we will have a varsity fencing team, a fencing program that is on the same level with the NCAA. We all want these to happen, and to achieve these, we need to get more schools and more people to be interested in fencing. That's exactly what we are doing right now.

[jokerjoe12]

Ok if you dont want foils, epees and sabres to be called swords what should they be called when they are grouped together. Fencing Equiptment? That could mean any thing from foils to cups. Fencilng weapons? you guys dont like that either. Fencing Equiptment used for the objective of scoring points by poking or in one case slicing? Alittle long. What do you suggest they call them.


On a side note I think it sound more immpressive to describe sword fights then foil bouts.