Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

victord66 · 12-06-2006, 11:59 AM

Need some expert advice here regarding tape used to mark the pistes. I am an official with the Ryerson Varsity Team in Toronto. We are planning to host a competiton in March, but are having a difficult time convincing the university sport and rec. people to let us put down tape. They have concerns that the tape will pull up the finish or otherwise leave marks. Can someone recommend a tape that we can use that will not leave any marks? Perhaps even an endorsement from a University official that we can use as ammunition? I do appreciate any help here. Many thanks.

Victor.

noodle · 12-06-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victord66

Need some expert advice here regarding tape used to mark the pistes. I am an official with the Ryerson Varsity Team in Toronto. We are planning to host a competiton in March, but are having a difficult time convincing the university sport and rec. people to let us put down tape. They have concerns that the tape will pull up the finish or otherwise leave marks. Can someone recommend a tape that we can use that will not leave any marks? Perhaps even an endorsement from a University official that we can use as ammunition? I do appreciate any help here. Many thanks.

Victor.

there are lots of good painters tapes that have a low stickiness and are designed for this type of thing. however, this does mean that the tape will come up easier for people who fence on it. should be able to find it yourself, though you might want to ask someone in your local hardware store to help you out.

i can't suggest anything in particular, since i don't really know any brand names or what might be sold near you.

SJCFU#2 · 12-06-2006, 12:17 PM

First question - what are you planning on using the tape for?

If all you are looking to do is put down lines on the the floor to define the strip then you can probably get by with painter's (blue) masking tape. It will generally last for a day or two (although the on-guard lines may need to be redone). There is also a white "safety" tape that is specifically intended for use on gym floors (approved by the US Volleyball Association), but it costs a lot more.

If you are planning on taping down copper or stainless steel strips then it gets more complicated (and expensive). First you need to put rosin or kraft paper down to prevent the strip from sanding down the floor. Then you need something like 3-inch gaff tape to tape down the strip. Some gyms require the use of the approved safety tape (which unfortunately doesn't adhere to strips very well) so you may need to lay down the paper and put safety tape down on either side, then lay down the strip and use gaff tape to tape the strip down on top of the safety tape.

Tape can be ordered on line from various sources - findtape.com and thetapeworks.com come to mind.

HDG · 12-06-2006, 12:19 PM

There is a tape specifically designed for use on fine varnished floors; it won't hold a metal strip down for a damn, but it will work just fine if you're just marking. I will look for a name & supplier, but your athletics department ought to know it.

noodle · 12-06-2006, 12:27 PM

if you're putting down metal strips and worrying about not tearing up the floor, tape is the least of your worries.

jfarmer · 12-06-2006, 12:43 PM

We use the basic 1 inch blue painters tape and leave it down for weeks at a time. The gym is used during the day for various kids programs (We fence in the gym of an old elementary school that is now a children's museum). I have to patch sections of the strips about once a month and plan on replacing entire strips every 3 months.

We've used the same tape for marking off strips in other gyms for one or two day tournaments without problems.

Of course, the ideal case would be to get strip outlines painted on the floor when it's next refinished...

John Farmer
Coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club

Beowulfman6 · 12-06-2006, 01:05 PM

I'm just going to second the blue painters tape. That is all we use here at Brevard. It comes up easily and doesn't leave any stickiness behind or damage the floor- but is tough enough to last for days of heavy fencing. The exception is the on guard lines, as John mentioned- they wear out quickly. The painters tape also comes in different colors now too, so you may be able to find a color that stands out better than the blue.

brtech · 12-06-2006, 02:09 PM

Although I see a lot of people using painters tape, there is a specific product called "floor tape" that every large athletic supply company carries. The most common color is yellow. It's vinyl or something close to it, with a non aggressive adhesive that comes off clean and doesn't hurt the floor or any of the permanent markings. It's much more rugged than painters tape, and you can leave it on for months and it will still come up easy and clean.

It is more expensive than painters tape.

If you can't locate it, let me know and I'll find a reference on the web.

One trick I've heard about is to ASK THEM what tape they want you to use. Everyone with a gym floor has this problem, and they all have at least one solution.

Beowulfman6 · 12-06-2006, 02:13 PM

I am familiar with floor tape, and if I was planning to leave the strips down for a while the extra cost would probably be worth it. However, if you are running a one or even two day tournamnt and pulling up the strips afterwards anyway the painters tape would probably be more economical.

MyrddinsPrecint · 12-06-2006, 03:08 PM

Smith has been hosting a rather large event for quite a number of years now, and a couple years ago, we used the kind of tape we were told to use, there was residue left on the floor, and we were charged a very large amount of money to clean the floors.

Now what we do is when talk to the athletics people about what kind of tape we can use, we then buy one roll, put some of it down. We make sure we scuff on it the way it would happen during fencing, and leave it a couple days. We then go down to the tape, with the athletics people, and pull it up. As a group, we decide if it will work.

Granted, this ends up to be a big to do every year, but we don't get charged when the tape leaves residue anymore.....

CvilleFencer · 12-06-2006, 04:23 PM

I assume this is a basketball type floor we are talking about? Depending on how the floor is finished (if it is done well and professionally with several layers cured and put down over a few days or if varnish is mopped on in one heavy coat and left to dry overnight by the janitors) blue tape can pull up the finish. The Purple tape is an even finer release tape that costs more but is a better bet. Floor tape is probably your best bet overall. If the floor has a crappy varnish job any tape has a chance to pull up the finish. At one of the schools I teach at (notoriously, abysmally pathetic maintenance staff at the school), Scotch tape will pull up the finish...

Beloit Fencer of Old · 12-06-2006, 06:01 PM

At Beloit College, we had a new sports center where we wanted to host a tournament for the first time. The college would not let us put down ANY tape. Instead, they gave us a gallon of paint they use for volleyball courts. You have to make a stencil and do at least two coats. When you're done, the janitorial staff comes in with wet mops and cleans it off. The stuff works great, and it's impossible for it to hurt the floors. If you want to know what it is and where to get it, call Beloit College at 608-363-2000, and ask for the sports center.

larkmaj · 12-06-2006, 06:11 PM

We are only allowed to use the vinyl floor tape. If you do a search for gym floor tape you should come up with the stuff. It comes in a variety of colors and widths. I always go with the green 1" stuff.

Purple Fencer · 12-06-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfarmer

Of course, the ideal case would be to get strip outlines painted on the floor when it's next refinished...

Cal State Long Beach has that situation in teh small gym where Orange Coast events are typically held....makes setting up SO much easier...set up the tables, reels & boxes...you're done!

victord66 · 12-16-2006, 02:52 PM

I have had no luck in convincing the university to let us use tape. They are adamant that no tape will be laid on the gym floor. However I have found a source for the paint that was suggested a few posts back:

Prang Tempera Paint: Curry's Art Supplies online Store

This is neat stuff. I tried it on my floor at home and it lays down a very dark line, dries quickly and does not scuff. And with only a few wipes with a sponge it comes off completely. I've submitted it to the facilities people for approval but have been told not to get my hopes up. My concern is how to draw the lines. I've thought of a stencil (maybe messy) or perhaps a 1" paint roller. I could stretch a string along the floor and then just run the roller along side. Any thoughts?

This will be my last resort. If they don't go along with this, we won't have a competition. Their last suggestion was to get laser light generators to 'project' lines along the floor. Anyone heard of this?

Beloit Fencer of Old · 12-17-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victord66

I have had no luck in convincing the university to let us use tape. They are adamant that no tape will be laid on the gym floor. However I have found a source for the paint that was suggested a few posts back:

Prang Tempera Paint: Curry's Art Supplies online Store

This is neat stuff. I tried it on my floor at home and it lays down a very dark line, dries quickly and does not scuff. And with only a few wipes with a sponge it comes off completely. I've submitted it to the facilities people for approval but have been told not to get my hopes up. My concern is how to draw the lines. I've thought of a stencil (maybe messy) or perhaps a 1" paint roller. I could stretch a string along the floor and then just run the roller along side. Any thoughts?

This will be my last resort. If they don't go along with this, we won't have a competition. Their last suggestion was to get laser light generators to 'project' lines along the floor. Anyone heard of this?

In Beloit we used stencils. But you could certainly just use thin paint rollers, too. This would be easier if you're just doing one or two strips, but if you're doing six or twelve, then just do the stencil.

Also, there's NO GOOD REASON for the facilities people to not approve this paint. If they say no, then they're simply anti-fencing bigots who are trying to throw up any roadblocks they can. Tell 'em I said so.

victord66 · 12-17-2006, 11:00 AM

Thanks, but what would you suggest I use for the stencil material? How wide and how long? I sort of envisaged a 7 metre stencil made out of craft paper with 1" lines with perhaps a cross piece every half metre or so just to hold it together. Then lay it down, paint half the piste line then move it forward and paint the other half. If I use craft paper though, wouldn't it disintegrate after a while? Suggestions?

parrythis · 12-17-2006, 01:30 PM

One option might be to post a bond.

Basically, you put the money it would take to repair any damage in the hands in of an independent third party. If there is no damage, you get the money back. If there is damage, the money is used to repair it. You would also need to agree on an independent third party to assess whether there was any damage to the floor.

If this is financially an option, you could approach the school administration and see if they would be open to it.

El Chucko · 12-17-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victord66

They are adamant that no tape will be laid on the gym floor.

For what it's worth, we have used vinyl gym floor tape twice now. It is specifically designed for this sort of thing, we had to special-order it, and it is not cheap... and it STILL pulled up the finish on the floor in spots!

Maybe you could use some kind of rubber runner or something as strips taht you just lay down. I don't know how well they would stay in place, though.

Beloit Fencer of Old · 12-18-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victord66

Thanks, but what would you suggest I use for the stencil material? How wide and how long? I sort of envisaged a 7 metre stencil made out of craft paper with 1" lines with perhaps a cross piece every half metre or so just to hold it together. Then lay it down, paint half the piste line then move it forward and paint the other half. If I use craft paper though, wouldn't it disintegrate after a while? Suggestions?

You should go to the art department and ask for some of their rolled poster paper. It will work well. You can spray it with a spray polyurethate the day before you use it and it will not disintegrate. But make sure it's not on the gym floor if you spray it...that will REALLY PISS OFF your facilities department!