Bell Guard Size in Foil.....

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

OK...does size matter? Since I was in college, about 100 years ago, I have used the largest allowable bell guards (Negrinis, I think). In fact, I am using the same ones today that I HAD when I was in college. Back then, I was something of a thug, with lots of speed and strength and very little in point control and finesse. Now that I am 37 and getting back into fencing, I have found that I have to rely more on point control than I used to.

I am curious about your opinions on the large size bellguards and would it be advantageous, from a speed/point control standpoint, for me to switch all my weapons over to a smaller guard? Does it make much difference? I have already switched over to smaller grips, as I have found this increases my weapon's speed and responsiveness. Is there any anecdotal evidence out there in Fnet land? Craig, do you think that I should get some of your fancy GOLD bell guards???

[Beowulfman6]

While in theory having a heavy bell guard would slow you down and wear out your arm faster, the differences in weight that I have seen for foil guards is not that great. I do have one of the LP untrastrong lightweight guards- which is in fact very strong and light, but you would have a very hard time telling the difference between that and a quality standard guard.

Using a different size grip will have a definite impact on your fencing, but more becouse of the way you hold it than the small weight difference. Vnity makes a superstong lightweight guard in two sizes- 10cm and the max 12cm. The small one is as good as or better than the LP superlight, but the big one is the max size and hardly heavier than a standard guard. If you do fence "thigish" and are using the max size guard I would highly recomend switching to the Vnitys. They cost more but are significantly stronger than any other full-size guard available (the large size makes them inherently week- I'm sure you've bent a few by now).

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by Beowulfman6

(the large size makes them inherently week- I'm sure you've bent a few by now).

Fortunately, I haven't bent any since college. I control myself much better now than when I was a young'un. And since I'm 5'10", 250lbs and work out all the time, very few people go corps a corps with me. This prevents a lot of the collisions which used to bend the large guards.

[Katman]

I have tiny hands. I've often thought of going smaller with my bell guards just because I think a 10 cm guard is a waste. The only smaller size I'm aware of is 8 cms though, and those are labeled for children.

I did switch from some regular aluminum guards to rolled-edge stainless steel guards. For some reason, I was too dumb to foresee how they would shift the balance and make my weapon overall heavier. I only keep them on now because I don't like the jagged edges on my old guards and I'm saving up for better ones.

If you're asking about a matter of rules, I'm sure it's in the rule book somewhere. When I look at world-class foil fencers they mostly seem to have tiny foil guards. Then again, compared to me they're relatively huge; I'm 5'4" and 140 pounds.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by Katman

I have tiny hands. I've often thought of going smaller with my bell guards just because I think a 10 cm guard is a waste. The only smaller size I'm aware of is 8 cms though, and those are labeled for children.

I wouldn't recommend 8 cm diameter guards if you plan on competing since the minimum legal diameter for a foil guard is 9.5 cm (m.9).

[Joe biebel]

The old Negrini guards mentioned were 12CM in diameter and could really take a beating. I'm not sure they are still available but they were very light and very tough. The Vniti large guard is 11.5 Cm in diameter, fairly light and amazingly tough. Another nice thing (that should be required by the rules for safety purposes) is that it has a nice curve on the outside edge of the guard that will prevent chopping with the blade from "serrating" the edge of the guard and making it sharp. It is the equivalent of a "rolled" edge. This is the nicest, safest, lightest, large guard I have seen to date. I think a small guard is asking for trouble. You will like it until the first time one of your fingers gets smashed.

Referees tend not to look at things like guards, overlaps on jackets and knickers, etc. too closely. I fenced this last weekend in a tournament where one opponents foil guards was pathetic. It was smashed, deformed, and the edge was not a safety edge that had become serrated. When we tested weapons at the beginning of the match, I pointed it out and asked that it be changed. The referee thought it was okay. I then politely asked if the referee would mind rubbing the edge of the guard hard accross the back of their hand where the veins were visible. He smiled and then looked closely at the guard and then told the fencer to change the weapon.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

The old Negrini guards mentioned were 12CM in diameter and could really take a beating. I'm not sure they are still available but they were very light and very tough. The Vniti large guard is 11.5 Cm in diameter, fairly light and amazingly tough. Another nice thing (that should be required by the rules for safety purposes) is that it has a nice curve on the outside edge of the guard that will prevent chopping with the blade from "serrating" the edge of the guard and making it sharp. It is the equivalent of a "rolled" edge. This is the nicest, safest, lightest, large guard I have seen to date. I think a small guard is asking for trouble. You will like it until the first time one of your fingers gets smashed.

Referees tend not to look at things like guards, overlaps on jackets and knickers, etc. too closely. I fenced this last weekend in a tournament where one opponents foil guards was pathetic. It was smashed, deformed, and the edge was not a safety edge that had become serrated. When we tested weapons at the beginning of the match, I pointed it out and asked that it be changed. The referee thought it was okay. I then politely asked if the referee would mind rubbing the edge of the guard hard accross the back of their hand where the veins were visible. He smiled and then looked closely at the guard and then told the fencer to change the weapon.

Joe, as always, I really respect your opinion. I guess I will stick with my old, big Negrinis, and if they have to be replaced at some point, try out the Vniti guard. And it's true, when using the large guards, I never seem to get my fingers smashed. Why, do you think it is, that so few people use the larger guards??? I've gone to three competitions since I started back to fencing, and I have not seen anyone else with the large guards yet....

[canthidefromme]

I find that lighter bell guards help my get the balance of my weapon towards the tip, which I prefer.
Also, since I use small grips, the rolled edge of the heavier steel guards uncomfortably rub against my finger.
That being said, its better to spend time improving the fencing than improving the equipment. After all, give me the lightest, best balanced foil ever and Sanzo will still beat me.