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C.I.C. · 12-03-2006, 03:07 PM

Whether you approve or don't, we all know this is a reality.
No character assassinations please! Just what you've experienced, seen or heard.

At which Ivys do the fencing coaches have the most influence on admissions of incoming Freshmen?

LUDICROUS · 12-03-2006, 03:30 PM

Three threads in one has been known to work,

.

Coming from someone who knows nothing about the subject, I'd say little. If I remember correctly from all the discussions on this boad, Ivy League coaches aren't allowed to scout out talent and try get them into the school, which means they probably don't have much influence over who gets in, either..

C.I.C. · 12-03-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Coming from someone who knows nothing about the subject,

I did ask for someone who had "experienced, seen or heard" something about this subject.

erooMynohtnA · 12-03-2006, 08:08 PM

Ludicrous is right.

RebelFencer · 12-03-2006, 08:10 PM

What are your qualifications as a fencer? Why should they care?

MyrddinsPrecint · 12-03-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

What are your qualifications as a fencer? Why should they care?

No no no! Don't make such assumptions, I got yelled at for that one in one of this creature's other two threads. He's not interested in applying for college, which is why he created three college fencing threads in one day!!!!!

bunbury · 12-03-2006, 08:37 PM

I know that at Duke and Brandeis, the coaches can put substantial pressure on the admissions office and let a fencer in (even after the fencer has been rejected from the university). No clue about how it works at Ivy League, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was similar.

bjacobs · 12-03-2006, 09:03 PM

Hi there. I was an Ivy League fencer, and was in contact with several Ivy League coaches when applying for school. They certainly act as if they have some pull, and based on certain people I've seen get into certain schools, I'm inclined to believe them. I know as a fact that they submit a list of people to the admissions committee that they'd like to see get in. Of course, they can do more with someone with decent grades and SAT scores than a C student.

I don't know if they do what you'd call active recruiting, but I found that they were all willing to meet with me when I visted their schools, and stay in touch during the application process. I know if you apply to Columbia you're likely to get an offer to be hosted by a fencer for the night, and the team will take you out for the night.

Send e-mails to the coaches at schools you're interested in; there's nothing to lose.

sabrmom · 12-03-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjacobs

I know as a fact that they submit a list of people to the admissions committee that they'd like to see get in.

This is something I've wondered about: the size of The List.

I've heard that an Ivy coach can submit a list of THIRTY football players, and (if their AI score is good) those thirty players are pretty much guaranteed a big admissions boost (if not automatic acceptance).

But: how many names would an Ivy fencing coach be allowed to put on a list, given the small size of a fencing squad (compared to football). Two names? Three?

Relampago · 12-04-2006, 01:34 AM

There is something called the "academic index" which combines all relevent admissions stats (SATs, class rank, etc) into a nice little number somewhere between 60 and 240. It's widely believed (though never does it anywhere say) that you need at least a 220 to get admission to an Ivy League school.

Calculate yours here:

Academic Index Calculator - Ivy League

Now, naturally, athletes get a break from this.
An Ivy league fencing coach recently told me that the University required him to only recruit people over 210 or so. He also told me that the admissions office was a little less stringent with the coaches of other sports (e.g. football).

An interesting observation was that many of the fencers this coach ended up recruiting actually surpassed the 220 mark, meaning that they'd get in on their own merit anyway. The conclusion? While there are fencing "jocks", the average academic stats of fencers seem to be higher than those of other athletes.

Goldgar · 12-04-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relampago

Academic Index Calculator - Ivy League

That's got to be out of date, since the SAT now has three numeric scores, not just two.

oiuyt · 12-04-2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldgar

That's got to be out of date, since the SAT now has three numeric scores, not just two.

On the other hand most schools are still ignoring the writing section until they have enough years of history with which to form a baseline relationship between the scores and performance once enrolled in the school.

-B

brtech · 12-04-2006, 10:52 AM

When my middle daughter discussed coming to a college with a strong fencing program, not an Ivy, she met the coach, spent time with the team, and had her fencing coach contact the college coach. She had stats good enough to get in, but as with most colleges, there are three classes of students: automatic admits, automatic denials, and maybes. There are often a very large number of maybes, and there is not a lot separating them.

In this case, after she decided that this particular school was her first choice, and communicated that, we received a letter from the coach with a strip of blue stickers. He asked us to put this stickers on the application to let the admissions officers know she was a person of interest to the coach.

She got in, early decision.

Yes, she may have been able to get in without those stickers. No, she would not have gotten in unless her stats were above the minimum even with the blue stickers. It's not a black and white, it's one more way she stood out from the other maybes. I think it was a deciding factor, but we'll never know that.

She is very happy, she is doing well with her team, and I think the coach is happy with his efforts on her behalf. We're about to start this process again, with another daughter and we'll be looking for the sticker, or equivalent, in her first choice school.

Goldgar · 12-04-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

On the other hand most schools are still ignoring the writing section until they have enough years of history with which to form a baseline relationship between the scores and performance once enrolled in the school.

No fair! My daughter got 800 on the writing part.

edew · 12-04-2006, 12:34 PM

Your daughter's going to college? Boy am I getting old...(then again, I have one who've graduated from college and one in college).

Goldgar · 12-04-2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edew

Your daughter's going to college? Boy am I getting old...(then again, I have one who've graduated from college and one in college).

You have a daughter who has graduated from college? Boy, am I getting old!

Yes, my daughter should be hearing from her early-decision school in about 10 days.

mrbiggs · 12-04-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldgar

That's got to be out of date, since the SAT now has three numeric scores, not just two.

Plus, it's silly to think that colleges admit people based on 5 test scores and a simple grade breakdown. Sure, I did horribly on the French SAT2, but I can't imagine that that would hurt a math major like a bad math SAT2 score.

It's probably a good approximation, but you can just eyeball your grades and SATs and get about as good of an estimate, in my opinion.

mifencer · 12-04-2006, 01:45 PM

I have a friend who was a 3.0 high school student, upper 1100's on his SAT score, and was on the jr. national team. He got early decision in an Ivy league school. I tell all the parents of the kids class this, it seems to help the parents on showing up with their kids on a regular basis.

bunbury · 12-04-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mifencer

I have a friend who was a 3.0 high school student, upper 1100's on his SAT score, and was on the jr. national team. He got early decision in an Ivy league school. I tell all the parents of the kids class this, it seems to help the parents on showing up with their kids on a regular basis.

Almost makes me sick...

DenverFencing · 12-04-2006, 02:22 PM

Both myself and my sister were recruited and fenced at Ivy League schools (UPenn and Yale) and both of us ended up being All-Americans. I can tell you from personal experience that the Coaches can play a big role in admissions and perhaps even the financial aid package you may receive. I was a bit below the average SAT score at UPenn at the time. I had good grades, a great interview, geographic diversity, and a decent essay. But I really think that having somebody on the other side of the admission process arguing your case for you probably made the difference in my case.

My sister had more going for her, but still believes that fencing helped push her over the top.

I was in Alburquerque a couple of weeks ago with my fencing students. I saw and talked to a tremedous amount of college coaches, including a fair amount of the Ivy League coaches. Why would all of the college coaches be that far away from home? Think about it. I did see a single one at the last Div II/Div III/Veterans I attended.

When everybody come to JOs in Denver, I expect to see all of the college coaches there and they will be recruiting. If you don't believe me, you just check out the table next to the registration. If you want to figure out who does the most recruiting, two factors by who is at JOs and how many college fencing guides they bring.