Leon Paul Mask F.I.E. 1600 newton bib with contour system

[warhawk]

I was thinking about purchasing this mask and I know that its for electric foil/epee but can it be used for practice sabre?
Thank You

[MyrddinsPrecint]

DRY sabre? as in not hooked up into machines? yes.

Electric sabre? no.

Electric sabre masks, similarly, can be used to practice try epee and foil, but can't be used for electric foil, and shouldn't really be used for electric epee (but sometimes are).

[brtech]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Electric sabre masks, similarly, can be used to practice try epee and foil, but can't be used for electric foil, and shouldn't really be used for electric epee (but sometimes are).

Oh, you can use a sabre mask for electric foil or epee. Not recommended, but allowable.

I'm not a rules spouter, but I don't recall a rule that would prevent you from using a sabre mask in a World Championship foil or epee meet. We do allow them in USFA tournaments. You wouldn't want to connect it to a foil lame of course, making your head target.

[keropie]

Oooh oooh! I get to be first!

In the section 'Rules specific to foil':

Originally Posted by USFA Rulebook

m.27 The mesh of the mask must not extend below the chin. It must
be insulated internally and externally by a plastic material
resistant to impact.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

so, doing so for foil would be stupid, since it's fairly easy for the bib to become conductive, mask cord or no. Obviously it doesn't happen all the time, but there's a reason sabre fencers don't test masks with them on.

In epee, you personally can't lose anything at all by wearing a sabre mask, but your opponent can-- if the point and the barrel touch the fabric at the same time, the touch doesn't actually register. Somewhat unlikly in the real fencing phrase, but, y'know, whatever.

You cannot count on your gorgeous FIE sabre mask being allowed in an epee event, even though many times people will allow it. Want to how I know that one? I was fencing epee a couple weekends ago (long story, check my journal), and a coach complained I couldn't wear my sabre mask. The ref on strip was rated a 3, knew that it was somewhat common practice to allow such masks to be used, but knew why the coach would object-------- It went to bout committee, and the FOC present (ok, so, one of the FOCs) said I couldn't use the mask.

Lots of people will allow it. At least one FOC will not.

edit: {Not that I complained too much, my coach immediately handed me his dry lp fie contour, so after a quick adjustment, I couldn't really tell the difference..... since I bought my mask, I've gotten so spoiled........}

[KD5MDK]

When the matter was brought to Dan DeChaine at Reno this year, he stated it was not against the rules to use a sabre mask in epee. When the issue of grounding out was brought to his attention, he stated if there was general support he'd consider submitting this as a rules change. Of course, local Bout Committees and referees have the right to disallow any piece of equipment if they have reason to belive it gives an unfair advantage.

It was also stated as clear that it would not be allowed in foil because of the rule (m.27) cited above.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

For the record, if someone else is trying to figure out when they'll be allowed to use a good sabre mask instead of a crappy dry mask, the FOC who wouldn't let me use a sabre mask was Jon Moss. If that, y'know, helps.

[Barry Paul]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

In epee, you personally can't lose anything at all by wearing a sabre mask, but your opponent can-- if the point and the barrel touch the fabric at the same time, the touch doesn't actually register. Somewhat unlikly in the real fencing phrase, but, y'know, whatever.

Very likely in a fight that a lame bib would shorts out a valid hit at epee. If you want to try in out, fence some one wearing a lame jacket and see what happens. The rules should say lame items cannot be worn when fencing epee.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by Barry Paul

Very likely in a fight that a lame bib would shorts out a valid hit at epee. If you want to try in out, fence some one wearing a lame jacket and see what happens. The rules should say lame items cannot be worn when fencing epee.

Oh, I absolutely beleive it would happen a LOT with a lame jacket. It's just a lot harder to do with the mask bib--- Particularly the mask bibs of the sabre x-changes. I wouldn't be wearing this particular mask if the bib ever did what my opponent's coach did with it to make his point : )

Again, not impossible, and with some sabre masks I've seen, certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

But definatly somewhat less likly with the x-change.

[DHCJr]

Since this has been going awhile and this deals with US National Tournaments, I would like to put in one comment. With the boxes that are used by the USFA, wearing a lame' or a Sabre mask will NOT short out an Epee tip.

The St. George machines are designed to still register in Epee even if there is a short.