Mask Bags?

[Inquartata]

OK, cue the apocalypse: I have a Lexan sabre mask.

( I hasten to add that it was a gift, and that I will not be using it unless and until I am forced to do so. )

Anyway...it came without the bag. And I have heard that these masks are supposed to be presented at weapons checks in the bag. Since it was a gift, I can't figure out whether it came with the bag or not, whether it got lost, etc. I just have a mask sans bag. ( Leon Paul, BTW. )

So my question for the armourers is: Is the bag mandatory, and how much if any trouble is its absence going to cause me if ever I should have to use the mask?

Secondarily, if the bag IS required, where exactly in the rules is this requirement to be found? I could only find a recommendation of a separate case in the material regulations, not an absolute injunction, but I might have missed it...

[Durando]

I will hereby pledge $50 towards buying Inq a set of purple FIE "whites," complete with big yellow lightning bolts on every extremity.

[KD5MDK]

He needs a red lame. It's the only color that could work.

[clonardo]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

He needs a red lame. It's the only color that could work.

I believe PBT sells pink sabre lames now. That would be fabulous.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Inquartata

OK, cue the apocalypse: I have a Lexan sabre mask.

( I hasten to add that it was a gift, and that I will not be using it unless and until I am forced to do so. )

A ROTFL moment, if there ever was one!

We have already seen a praise thread started by you recently - what next, a Mrs. and Jr Inq?

On topic: Maybe you could ask your friends/relatives if they still have the mask bag? Better safe than sorry! OTOH, I can not find any mention of a mask bag on the LP website, and my professional knowledge as a mechanical engineer does not suggest that a mask bag will noticeably enhance the MTTF of the visor mask. Therefore, I see no reason for a mask bag requirement.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[brtech]

Well, I know that the answer for a NAC/JO/SN is no.

I'm pretty sure the answer for a World Cup is no.

It MAY be the case that for a World Championship that it now is "yes", but two years ago it was no.

[Durando]

Mang, you gonna look like dis when you be finish:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8...pics/jesus.jpg

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Durando

Mang, you gonna look like dis when you be finish:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8...pics/jesus.jpg

Uh.....

Thug?

[Barry Paul]

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Hi!




OTOH, I can not find any mention of a mask bag on the LP website, and my professional knowledge as a mechanical engineer does not suggest that a mask bag will noticeably enhance the MTTF of the visor mask. Therefore, I see no reason for a mask bag requirement.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Go to bags scroll down and you will find a mask bag.

http://www.leonpaulusa.com/fencing/a..._Cases_44.html

[daveappr]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

OK, cue the apocalypse: I have a Lexan sabre mask.
..

Now that's karma

[Durando]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Uh.....

Thug?

Nah. Here's Inq polishing his mask before checking in:
http://images.wastedbrains.com/Funny...owlingnuts.gif

[VorpalCat]

Originally Posted by clonardo

I believe PBT sells pink sabre lames now. That would be fabulous.

I will personally tie-dye socks to match whatever lame and/or uniform colors are settled on.

[Inquartata]

Can you do white on white, then?

( And thanks to brtech for answering the actual question! )

OK, another question. My coach claims that affixing opaque film ( like window-tinting material ) to the inside of the Lexan panel is prohibited by the rules. I can find no such passage in either the rules or the material regulations. Am I missing it, or is my coach all wet?

[larkmaj]

Just to make sure you're aware, the lexan on the mask is only good for 2 years, so if you aren't going to use it "until" you need to, it may be too late. Especially if the lexan says 2005 and not 2006. Of course this is probably only enforced at the FIE level, but then again, that's wear you need to use it.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

Just to make sure you're aware, the lexan on the mask is only good for 2 years, so if you aren't going to use it "until" you need to, it may be too late. Especially if the lexan says 2005 and not 2006. Of course this is probably only enforced at the FIE level, but then again, that's wear you need to use it.

Well, uh, no, we actually check them at Summer Nationals, JOs, and maybe some NACs.

[keropie]

I certainly haven't looked for the passage in the rules yet, but that does seem to go against the intent of the mask in a hurry, Inq. I expect that some crazy French guy would run out of the stands and behead you if you were hiding your eyes in an event at which you needed a visor mask. Or something like that.

[Inquartata]

Yeah, that's why I want to do it. And if it's not in the rules, they can't really enforce it. "Intent" opens the door for all kinds of things the FIE probably would not like, as it depends too much on interpretation...

This is all I can find in the material rules ( well, there's also precis of the homologation and testing process, but it doesn't look relevant ):

The FIE in its standard practices has established the possibility for fencers to use either traditional masks made with metallic trellis or transparent masks.

These transparent masks can be of two types:

— composite masks, made using traditional masks, of which a part
of the front trellis has been replaced by a visor of transparent
plastic;

— masks made entirely of plastic, of which the front part must be
transparent.


Currently only composite masks have been accepted by the FIE.


2. Manufacturing norms for transparent masks

The norms are, at present, valid only for composite masks.

The starting point is a metallic trellis mask; into the front part of the
trellis, at eye level, a window is made by cutting the trellis to a width
that may reach as far as the lateral part of the trellis and to a height
that may not exceed 12 cm.

The window must be rimmed by a metallic frame of stainless steel,
made of two superimposed sections, of which the first is to be
soldered to the trellis and the second fixed to the first by bolts.

The transparent visor made of polycarbonate (Lexan) will be placed
between the two parts of the frame.

Care must be taken that:

— The thickness of the steel gauge of each part of the frame must be
between 0.8 mm and 1.0 mm.

— The edges of the frame which holds down the transparent visor
must not be sharp (cutting) and must adhere to the trellis, without
any perceptible projections.

— The part of the frame that is soldered must be fixed to the trellis
before the window is cut, to ensure that the shape of the mask is
not altered when the wires of the trellis are cut.

— The bolts fixing the two parts of the frame must not project
beyond the nuts into which they screw.

— The polycarbonate transparent visor (Lexan) must have a
minimum thickness of 3.0 mm, and a protective layer against
damage to the outside surface is recommended.

— The visor must not have any holes in it, must be shaped when hot,
and placed in its location in the frame, under no pressure, when
cold and, therefore, without being in any way ‘stressed’.

— There must be provision for an anti-condensation system on the
inside of the visor, or Lexan treated to this end must be used.

— Because of the damage caused to transparent visors during
fencing competitions, it is essential that fencers are able to change
the visor of their masks simply and easily.

— The padding of the mask must be reduced as much as possible,
using any system which will provide a circulation of air virtually
equivalent to that of the traditional mask.

— The total weight of the mask must not exceed 2 kg.

3. Safety standards

All transparent visor masks must provide a high level of safety for
fencers. They must therefore comply with very severe standards and
in particular:

— The whole structure of the mask must be rigid and not be
distorted as a result of violent shocks.

— The metallic mesh and the bib must have the same strength
characteristics as those of traditional masks.

— Because of ageing of the plastic material, the polycarbonate visor
must only be used for two years after its manufacture and,
therefore, the date of manufacture (year and month) must be
indicated on it very clearly.

— To avoid degrading the polycarbonate, all contact with chemical
agents that can damage the material must be prevented; in
particular, any presence of PVC is unacceptable.

— The mask should be kept in a protective bag and it is desirable to
avoid putting the mask in the fencing bag (and hence in the
aircraft hold) during airplane journeys, but rather to keep it in
hand luggage.

4. Homologation of transparent masks and test methods

Before being put on sale and used, all transparent visor masks must
be approved and homologated by the SEMI.

The passages in bold are the only ones that seem remotely pertinent to the addition of an inner film, and I'm not sure how they are construed...

But then, that language doesn't mandate the use of visor masks at any event, either---it just says that they MAY be used.

No doubt there are supplementary edicts which accrue to the rules. Anyone know of such an addition?

[DHCJr]

A summary and some comments.

Inquartata gave a good account of the pertenent rules.

1) Visor masks should be put in a bag.
How many fencers have PVC tubes around their blades. Note in the rules PVC and Lexan do not get along.

2) The Lexan must be less than 2 years old.

3) There is nothing in the rules that would block using the lining as described unless it is made of PVC or causes condensation as Inquartata highlighted.

But the first time it is done at International that RR is at, it will suddenly be banned by an order from the Executive Committee (i.e. RR).

[keropie]

One could argue that it is illegal based on the simple definition of 'transparent masks' however...

[Inquartata]

Oh, it'll still be transparent. From the inside.

Anyway, that's pretty much what I expect, Don. After the film is banned, I will string a sort of veil across the inside...and in these times of sensitivity to religious views, let them try banning a veil.

After that, I wear a Zorro mask, or Groucho glasses, or a ski mask with my dark glasses. Whatever is necessary to stymy a stupid policy.