11-20-2006, 01:27 PM
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#1 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,538
| Really GOOD Referees
Lest we be like the media, always and anon reporting only the bad, the negative, the critical, and ignoring the good...herewith a thread for discussing positive refereeing experiences, and lauding the men and women who bring them to us...
( Who'd have expected such a thing from a curmudgeon, eh?  )
My nominee: Tomasz Stusinski, sabre. Consistently competent, always in control of his strip, unfailing good humor and pleasant manner. I don't think I've ever had a complaint with one of his calls, and if you know me, that's saying something.
Runner up: Christine Griffith, because she misses nothing. Where many refs will not notice the small things in the furor of a fast-moving sabre bout---like crossovers---she does. ( It doesn't hurt that she seems to see actions the way I do a lot, too.  )
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11-20-2006, 01:35 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,353
| George Tidrick who stepped into a reffing vacancy at the FDL Turkey Tourney in Seattle did a fabulous job - clear, concise, and consistent. What more can you ask for? Getting through foil on time made sure the rest of the Tourney ran smoothly and we couldn't have done it without him. Thanks a million.
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Last edited by RoninX; 11-20-2006 at 02:51 PM.
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11-20-2006, 01:52 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Amherst, MA and Franklin, MA
Posts: 2,487
| Wes Glon-Sabre....as a ref he's a great mentor, and as a fencer, he's the best ref I'd want on strip. Although I would agree Tomascz is great as well, would not mind having him ref all my bouts.
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11-20-2006, 02:12 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Hall School, Wellesely, MA
Posts: 3,821
| I'll just stick with the best refs and not others that I may think are good...
In sabre, I'll second Tomasz and Wes. I'll add Baker, Cantin, Cotton, Hristov, Klinkov, Lee, and Washburn.
In foil, I'll nominate Angelova, Cotton, Dilworth, Oliver, Scaggs, Siminov, and Washburn.
In epee, Alperstein, Baumgart, and Goosens.
Note, please, that this is NOT intended to be a comprehensive list of the best referees. any glaring oversights are unintentional.
-m
Last edited by epeemike81; 11-20-2006 at 02:14 PM.
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11-20-2006, 02:22 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 3,290
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11-20-2006, 02:22 PM
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#6 | | Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,177
| Jerry Benson, not just for his calls on strip but for the tremendous effect he has had on referee development in the Southwest. | |
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11-20-2006, 02:32 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 706
| Quote:
Originally Posted by KD5MDK  Jerry Benson, not just for his calls on strip but for the tremendous effect he has had on referee development in the Southwest. | Sorry, but I gotta beg to differ on the calls on the strip part for foil. I assume the Southwest referee development thing is true, though. | |
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11-20-2006, 02:48 PM
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#8 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: CA area
Posts: 6,153
| Jerry is generally fairly good. But I think he gets burned out too soon during the day (or that the FOC over uses him...either way).
For foil: Scaggs, Washburn, Cotton, Glon, Lilov
For saber: Stuzinski, Glon, Lilov (when there's no fencer needed to be biased), Baker.
For epee: don't know. Will find out at Richmond.
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11-20-2006, 03:05 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CC
Posts: 2,631
| Quote:
Originally Posted by epeemike81 In epee, Alperstein, Baumgart, and Goosens. | I second those and I'll add Bill Oliver. When I think of strong, professional refs in epee, these immediately come to mind.
I don't mind Boris Vaksman or the Egyptian guy (can't remember his name).
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11-20-2006, 03:15 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,545
| Marek Stepien for epee...
Though he's not really a time-honored member of the referee cadre.
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11-20-2006, 03:17 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,420
| Quote:
Originally Posted by oso97 | Not all 1s are created equal. Some 1s are better than other 1s, which is mostly the theme of this thread so far, but there are alos people who are still only 2s who are still working and getting better who are clearly at least worth a discussion about whether they're as good and/or better than many 1s.
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11-20-2006, 03:23 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Hall School, Wellesely, MA
Posts: 3,821
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Fencer I second those and I'll add Bill Oliver. When I think of strong, professional refs in epee, these immediately come to mind.
I don't mind Boris Vaksman or the Egyptian guy (can't remember his name). | Gamal Mahmoud (I'm guessing. there are multiple Egyptian guys, but he's the one you're probably talking about)
-m | |
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11-20-2006, 03:36 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Here
Posts: 2,122
| Epee ref Hannan el something-or-other. Very firm, but kind and polite. A fantastic mentor for new referees.
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Originally Posted by IHateMrPotatohead I can't think of anything to put down there! |  | |
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11-20-2006, 03:40 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Hall School, Wellesely, MA
Posts: 3,821
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Originally Posted by IHateMrPotatohead Epee ref Hannan el something-or-other. Very firm, but kind and polite. A fantastic mentor for new referees. | Hannan Gamal-el-Din.
-m | |
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11-20-2006, 03:40 PM
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#15 | | Friend of Fencing
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Being helpful in Breeland
Posts: 863
| Quote:
Originally Posted by oso97 | Why stop the search at [Highest Rating:] [is] [1]? [Highest Rating:] [above] [1]
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11-20-2006, 04:05 PM
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#16 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: May 2000 Location: The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
Posts: 3,184
| The last tournament I went to, I was reff'ed by Jeff Arenberg, and found that he did an excellent job. He was quick, and always backed up his calls with the right explanation.
__________________ - Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
- To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial
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11-20-2006, 06:27 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: General Dort area, Dublin
Posts: 170
| Never fenced in the State, so it'll have to be a British referee (for foil).
So I nominate Mike Thornton. Detached, consistent, excellent eye, fair, knows the rules and enforces them.
Anytime he referees my bouts I can relax and just get on with fencing the other guy. | |
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11-21-2006, 12:44 AM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,238
| I've never really had any issues with Mr. Benson's calls. Wes Glon is legendary. John Moss is as close to a 'mentor' as I have at the National Level, so I guess I can't complain about him without getting in trouble But I'm not all that particular about refs.
The only one in the list I've ever disagreed with that I can recall was Mr. Washburn. Of course, I was fencing in the bout in question, so I was clearly biased, but I definitely recall being able to hit my opponent, then attempt to parry his 'attack', watch him stop his attack and change to a new line, finish his attack, and it was still his attack. I had a very difficult time then understanding how he could NOT be in preparation if after being hit he'd change lines and then finish. I can see it much better now given my distance from the bout and additional maturity, however, so I'll go ahead and admit that I MAY have been wrong
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11-21-2006, 12:54 AM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 991
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Originally Posted by keropie I can see it much better now given my distance from the bout and additional maturity, however, so I'll go ahead and admit that I MAY have been wrong | Not by that description. | |
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11-21-2006, 01:48 AM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 379
| The votes for sabre refs are just wacky.
While Wes and Stusinski are generally nice guys, they are not examples of the best refs.
For one, Wes NEVER awards a two-light counter-attack outside of the simul. Sure, I guess you can call that consistent, but it's also ignoring a huge part of RoW, which is crazy, in my opinion. When I say NEVER, by the way, I don't mean for the most part -- I mean that he actually told me he won't award a counter-attack if the attacker's light went on.
Stusinski CAN see calls, but he always has a slight lean towards the higher-ranked fencer. Sounds cliched, I know, but observe carefully and you'll see it. I don't think it's a conscious problem either.
The best sabre ref for me, hands down, is Terrence Lasker. He's near-perfect.
Also, Naslimov's son (I forget his name) was really good. Too bad he's not around anymore. Quote:
Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC] Well I hope Wes wouldn't award a counter-attacker in a two light situation priority seeing as he was counter-attacking, but ya know, that's just me. | Bah, you got me there. It's late, and what I meant to say is that he will never call an attack in prep (outside of the very first action in the touch) if there are two lights.
Last edited by ViewtifulMisho; 11-21-2006 at 02:36 AM.
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