Really Bad Referees

[LeftHanded]

I was just thinking about hwo many times I've missed or lost touches because of bad calls or judges that held a grudge agianst me. I once had a judge that said I turned my back 4 times. Anyways what can you do? Is there anythibng you can do?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Take a dump in his bag.

Past that, not really.

[epeemike81]

I was just thinking about hwo many times I've missed or lost touches because of bad calls or judges that held a grudge agianst me. I once had a judge that said I turned my back 4 times. Anyways what can you do? Is there anythibng you can do?

Stop turning your back??

In all honesty, I think some fencers WAY overestimate how much a referee's personal feelings enter into it. speaking as a referee I:
a) have enough pride that I wouldn't cheat for or against ANYBODY no matter how I felt about them
and
b) Just don't care that much about the vast majority of people. You're just not that important a part of the referee's life. get over it.

I think (and hope) I'm fairly typical in these attitudes.

-m

[KD5MDK]

I agree with epeemike. There are very few fencers in whom I have enough personal interest to care what their result is, almost all of them are clear division and club conflicts, and I have enough self respect to not consider changing a call because it would affect them.

[epeemike81]

...almost all of them are clear division and club conflicts...

Which means you won't be reffing them at anything that matters anyway.

-m

[rcmatthews]

You have to realize that at the end of the day, regardless of what caused it, you are the one who lost. And don't turn your back.

[daveappr]

Stop turning your back??

In all honesty, I think some fencers WAY overestimate how much a referee's personal feelings enter into it. speaking as a referee I:
a) have enough pride that I wouldn't cheat for or against ANYBODY no matter how I felt about them
and
b) Just don't care that much about the vast majority of people. You're just not that important a part of the referee's life. get over it.

I think (and hope) I'm fairly typical in these attitudes.

-m

I couldn't agree more. You could get single lights, fence cleaner, oh wait your profile says you fence epee- stop putting your results in someone elses hands. Train harder and overcome bad habits - especially the turning your back

[RITFencing]

I'm with Mike. If your ref always calls something as turning the back (or jostling, or corps a corps, or in the ROW weapons an attack or a parry) you just adjust and roll with it. Especially if you ARE turning the back.

Oh, and a bit of advice... without some concrete proof as to why a ref is bad... it puts up the backs of a lot of the other referees. We don't like getting insulted any more than you do.

[erooMynohtnA]

In one DE bout, I had several blown calls. My opponent covered target, and I hit him in the arm he used to cover. There was a yellow card, but I was not awarded the touch. My opponent turned his back but the referee insisted that it was after the halt, despite the halt having been clearly called after the turning and even because he turned his back (as there were no lights). At 8-8 with about ten seconds left in the third period, my opponent ran into me, and the director stated it was after he called halt, hence corps a corps, but not a card (I didn't think to appeal). We then went to overtime, and I lost.

You know who lost that bout? Me.

In summation, you can stop shifting blame and accept your losses as your own.

[whtouche]

I agree with what seems to be the consensus here.
Not to, as epeemike has, say that because as a referee I take that duty seriously enough to be as objective as humanly possible and that I can't fathom cheating for or against anyone and therefore I can't fathom anyone else cheating as a referee. I'm sure it happens, infact I know it does.

BUT, much more often it happens that fencers gain the attitude that if I win it's because I'm great and if I lose it's because the ref is out to get me. This attitude is especially prevelant at the lower levels where fencers think they know much more than they actually do, but it's present at all levels.

Turning your back is dangerous. If you were actually doing so, the referee is doing you a favor by calling you on it.

[RITFencing]

Turning your back is dangerous. If you were actually doing so, the referee is doing you a favor by calling you on it.

Slight note: the turning rule is for anti cheating, NOT for safety. Common misconception.

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

[/pedanticism]

[daveappr]

In one DE bout, I had several blown calls. My opponent covered target, and I hit him in the arm he used to cover. There was a yellow card, but I was not awarded the touch. My opponent turned his back but the referee insisted that it was after the halt, despite the halt having been clearly called after the turning and even because he turned his back (as there were no lights). At 8-8 with about ten seconds left in the third period, my opponent ran into me, and the director stated it was after he called halt, hence corps a corps, but not a card (I didn't think to appeal). We then went to overtime, and I lost.

You know who lost that bout? Me.

In summation, you can stop shifting blame and accept your losses as your own.

You are so on target with this post.
Accountability is one of the life lessons that can be learned through fencing, responsibility- is another. The referee is not responsible for your losses- you, as the fencer are.

[HDG]

Slight note: the turning rule is for anti cheating, NOT for safety. Common misconception.

Regardless of the purpose, it serves an important safety function.

[epeemike81]

Slight note: the turning rule is for anti cheating, NOT for safety. Common misconception.

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

[/pedanticism]

he didn't say the rule was for safety, but merely that turning your back is dangerous.

[/REAL pedanticism]

-m

[mrbiggs]

Slight note: the turning rule is for anti cheating, NOT for safety. Common misconception.

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

[/pedanticism]

The rule was created for cheating, but the action is fairly unsafe as well.

Plus, how can turning the back help you cheat in sabre?

I guess epeemike beat me to the post...

[RITFencing]

Alright, all three of you got me. Happy now?

[Goldgar]

I was just thinking about hwo many times I've missed or lost touches because of bad calls or judges that held a grudge agianst me. I once had a judge that said I turned my back 4 times. Anyways what can you do? Is there anythibng you can do?

I had a referee once, years ago, who called any slight turning of the head to look at the lights as "turning the back". Sure, I know, don't look at the lights -- but for whatever reason, that day I couldn't stop myself. After the second or third red card, I just retreated all the way the end of the strip at the command "fence", so I couldn't look at the lights. I won that bout (partly because my opponent couldn't figure out what devious trap I was laying by doing that ).

[epeemike81]

I had a referee once, years ago, who called any slight turning of the head to look at the lights as "turning the back". Sure, I know, don't look at the lights -- but for whatever reason, that day I couldn't stop myself. After the second or third red card, I just retreated all the way the end of the strip at the command "fence", so I couldn't look at the lights. I won that bout (partly because my opponent couldn't figure out what devious trap I was laying by doing that ).

well, this problem is easily solved just by putting repeaters on every strip...

-m

[edew]

Another easy solution is to not score.

[epeemike81]

Another easy solution is to not score.

yeah, but with my solution you can still win the bout.

-m