Youth Fencers, Fence your age group!

[Mo]

From the entry lists in Albuquerque it seems a lot of fencers, especially female fencers are not fencing events they could be.
If a person who is a Y 14 fencer only fences cadet junior and div one, they will constantly get their butts handed to them on a platter unless they are exceptional.
Kids need success. Success builds the foundation for more success. It makes fencing more fun and interesting.
Stop entering your kids in the older events and excluding the Y events. There is time for them to grow up. Let them be kids.
Just because some other kid you know fenced up doesn't mean all fencers should. Each fencer is unique. Let them have their day.
The Momster

[swordsen]

On the other hand, if you can only afford to stay for one day/event, many fencers prefer to fence the event where they will get better competition. Even if they do get their butts handed to them.

[rac]

Actually given the current state of the ranking system it is next to impossible to achieve any sort of ranking (points) success in your age group if you stick to only that group. You MUST pursue the points chase in the group above the group you currently reside and if you look at the Y14/Cadet/Junior rankings you will see that that is numerically the only way to enter the top 8 in some of these divisions.

RAC

[edew]

It could be that they couldn't attend the Y14s because they were on a Friday or Monday and they have to be at school.

[KD5MDK]

For that matter, the fencers I know had greated success in Cadet than Y14. It was most curious.

[oiuyt]

I think Mo's more looking at fencers who take first place in junior, skip a day for Y14, then place second in cadet. No issues of extra days, etc. Potential issue of taking the day off to be more prepared/rested for the cadet event. Then again, I'm not sure that counts as "get[ting] their butts handed to them on a platter", but more in the "exceptional" category. I assume from Mo's post that there were other fencers with a similar schedule but lesser success.

-B

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'm not an elite level cadet, but when it comes to local events in my age group, I don't compete.

I'd much rather fence against older and more challenging fencers. Its not worth my entry fee to fence a few cadets.

[seven6ty]

You really do handicap yourself by only sticking to your own age group. In the short term, you may get better results, but it will be a detriment to you (or your child), to try and keep them only to their age groupings. I think that's one of the short comings of the current USFA system, there's a seperate category for everyone of every skill level in every age group, but that's another rant all together.

[oiuyt]

Note that Mo didn't argue that fencers should ONLY fence in their age group. Rather she said they shouldn't only fence up and skip their natural event. Fairly big distinction.

-B

[fencerwallet]

My son is now able to utilize the Handbook App. 2.1 age exception and will absolutely "fence up", looking to fence in the JO Qualifiers this weekend. He doesn't care and prefers to get beat by older kids than take pride in a 5-0, 5-0 Y12 RYC final. However, he still fences his age category. Also, he recently asked his coach's permission to fence foil for the first time "for fun" and may do that in his actual age category for some local stuff this year. In other words, he just wants to fence is butt off.

[4qtrs]

I also think that Y14 is somewhat unique because they can fence all three categories. I know many a fencer that will drop the Y14 if there is a conflict.

There is also one other point to consider. In the male youth events we have observed that you get a lot of small kids that may be either the pill bug type (curls up so there is no target left) or kids who wouldn't or can't recognize subtle moves.

Depending on your experience in fencing it can be easier to fence the older kids who have more experience (and target areas).

[foildad]

[quote=4qtrs;502222]I also think that Y14 is somewhat unique because they can fence all three categories. I know many a fencer that will drop the Y14 if there is a conflict...
QUOTE]

Reminds me of David Willette. Last year at Summer Nationals, Y14 and Div 1 MF were the same day. Faced with the conflict, he walked away from an almost certain Y14 medal...

[Mo]

I am not refering to fencers who can win Junior or cadet. I am refering to fencers who have never made the top 8 or do so very rarely in Cadet and Junior.
It is not about getting points. It is about having some success and measuring yourself against your TRUE peers.
The fencers that place poorly in the older age groups need a boost.
Fencers that can fence up should definitely do so. It would be silly not to but they need to have realistic expectations.
I've seen kids who can win in the upper age groups because they understand fencing more. There are fencers who can win cadet and junior and fence badly in Y14.
What I was trying to say is, if a fencer has a good chance of doing very well in their age group they should try it.
What is the benefit of going out in the first round of Div 1 when you could be winning Y14?? Seems there would be a lot fewer tears.
Momster

[4qtrs]

I think one of the problems with the subject is that the reasons are as varied as the people to choose to do it.

Question Momster, do you think it happens in both boys and girls or is it more of a trend in girls? We have been out of the 14's for two years now, but when my youngest was doing 14's it seemed like the same group of kids fenced at least the cadet and most were trying out the Jr.

[seven6ty]

What is the benefit of going out in the first round of Div 1 when you could be winning Y14?? Seems there would be a lot fewer tears.

Because they'll be better prepared for when they move up into the U17, 19 and 20 categories. I've seen it all too often that someone does well in their age group or whatnot, and then they completely blow it when they move up into the next highest age bracket, often causing them to get frustrated and quit fencing. I'd encourage kids to be in it for the long haul and to get used to competing in the categories that they will probably end up competing in for the rest of their lives. Once they get older, believe me, the experience will pay them back ten fold. Winning a Y14 event, while a short term ego boost, isn't going to help the kid that much in terms of overall fencing experience.

Don't mean to sound like I'm discouraging kids from fencing in their age groups, but given the choice, I think it would be wiser to fence at the highest level possible.

[4qtrs]

I tend to agree with seven6ty.

I also think that each kid has to move at their own pace. If a kid (not parent) wants to fence a Div I then I think they should.

[rac]

Originally Posted by seven6ty

Because they'll be better prepared for when they move up into the U17, 19 and 20 categories. ... {edited} ... Once they get older, believe me, the experience will pay them back ten fold. Winning a Y14 event, while a short term ego boost, isn't going to help the kid that much in terms of overall fencing experience.

Don't mean to sound like I'm discouraging kids from fencing in their age groups, but given the choice, I think it would be wiser to fence at the highest level possible.

Originally Posted by 4qtrs

I tend to agree with seven6ty.
I also think that each kid has to move at their own pace. If a kid (not parent) wants to fence a Div I then I think they should.

I tend to agree with the folks quoted above and the MOST IMPORTANT phrase is: ..."not parent"...

If the fencer is reaching then by all means let them taste the real world.

rac

[jjefferies]

This thread has been mostly about young fencers trying to fence up into divisions above their age and possibly skill level.

But today I heard that the opposite has also been happening and seems to be increasing. That is fencers changing their stated birthdates so as to stay in the lower age brackets and gain an advantage by fencing less physically developed youngsters. I overheard that there have been at least five documented cases in recent youth events.

I've also heard this is true in some of the youth baseball leagues.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

This thread has been mostly about young fencers trying to fence up into divisions above their age and possibly skill level.

But today I heard that the opposite has also been happening and seems to be increasing. That is fencers changing their stated birthdates so as to stay in the lower age brackets and gain an advantage by fencing less physically developed youngsters. I overheard that there have been at least five documented cases in recent youth events.

I've also heard this is true in some of the youth baseball leagues.

Y-14 here I come!

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Y-14 here I come!

Not if I get there first!