How do you lower the epee point tension?

[crquack]

My new epee lights up with a tip pressure of about 1300 gm (as determined by experimentation with a digital scale and several cans of soup :-).

This is about twice the legal limit and I suspect I am losing touches (I have seen the blade bend on the opponents torso without the light going on).

The obvious answer is to do something about the spring but question is what? Previously I squished the spring overnight in a vise with minor improvement and the point became somewhat temperamental. I was told that to cut the spring is a no-no. Should one just buy a bunch of springs and keep changing them until the desired result?

I could not find anything related by doing a forum search.

[KD5MDK]

Where are you buying your springs from? Does the tip move smoothly in the barrel without binding?

[SJCFU#2]

You could cut the spring - but before you do that I would suggest getting some spare springs. At least then you will have a back up in case you cut too much (plus springs are cheap and you might find one that you like better). I've also heard of people heating their springs to alter the temper but I suspect that would be even harder to control.

If you do decide to cut the spring then you may want to use a dremel and cutting wheel (it's less likely to damage the spring than wire cutters). Cutting the spring may also lead to other problems because the cut end of the spring will no longer form a complete flattened circle.

However in all honesty the spring probably isn't costing you as many touches as you think. You would probably be better off with a clean, well finished tip that travels easily (which is probably what KD5MDK was alluding to).

[DHCJr]

As SJCFU#2 says there can be problems with cutting a spring. It is worse with Foil as Foilist are always spinning their tips (for good reasons) and the spring if cut can grab the cup and twist it.

As said above there could be other reasons. They did a study of how hard fencers hit. This was of course done with International fencers. They found most hits registered 2 to 3 Kilograms, twice what your spring is holding up.

Another item to check is the travel spring. If it is barely touching or bent slightly could cause what you describe. Use Automotive gauges to first find out where it is set and then set it closer to 0.5. I suggest between 0.35 and 0.45.

[crquack]

Thanks.

I can find nothing wrong with the way the tip moves just by inspection.

I did not think myself that the 1300 gm was costing me that many touches but yesterday it got to the ridiculous state where I could actually see the blade bending on the guy's torso and no light came on. It gave him also a subtle advantage: I thought I scored and did not with just enough lapse in concentration for him to get in. Well, that is my excuse.

My other epee, after multiple fiddling with the spring, has developed an interesting habit of lighting up in all but vertical (downwards) positions. I have not done anything about it as I seldom go for the foot, but now I shall have to look at the contact spring if I want to take it on the road.

[SJCFU#2]

If you are seeing a bend in the blade but the touch isn't registering then the problem probably lies somewhere other than the weight spring.

As Donald suggested, take a good look at travel - your contact spring may not always be shorting the contacts together.

[Fechter1]

Several ideas that might help diagnose the problem (some of these have been mentioned, I'll include them for completeness, and try to give credit):

- If a bend in the blade prevents the point registering, then you have a break in the wire somewhere. Most of these occur just underneath the cup, when the solder has become disconnected, sometimes from rotating the cup (for example, when tightening the barrel). When this happens, the wire can be held in place to maintain electrical connection to the contact, but only as long as the blade is straight.
Solution: rewire.

- Check the travel of the point itself (KD5MDK's first post). If there's any 'crunchiness' in the travel (i.e. if it's not smooth), then your tip might get caught on this roughness. This is especially noticeable when the point is depressed at non-straight angles.
Solution: try a new tip. If that doesn't work, get a whole new point and rewire.

- Make sure that the contact spring makes solid contact with both leads inside the barrel (DHCJr's post). Pay special attention to any lateral movement of the tip (this will misalign the contact spring).
Solution: get a tip that fits the barrel better.

- Check that the pressure spring is seated properly. On some wire/spring combinations, the shape of the cup holding the wire leads can prevent the pressure spring seating properly... If you insert the pressure spring into the barrel, it should not protrude at all.
Solution: might need some fine manipulation of the cup, but you need to seat that spring.

- The problem might not be in your blade. I've had body cord problems prevent touches, but only when there's tension on the cord, so it'll test just fine every time. Won't affect the spring weight, but it might be the cause of some non-touches.


I've never had any real problem with pressure springs... I buy Uhlmann parts, and they're always pretty well tuned out of the box.
For my money, I'd say that KD5MDK's cause is the most likely suspect in the case that you describe...

[Mergs]

Since it is an epee tip, I was thinking something on the lines of some nice soft New Age music, a glass of cool Pinot Grigio, some heated stones, facial massage and maybe a mudpack.

Now if it was foil tip, I'd say a good football game and a case of beer and munchies.

Saber? Well, there's no hope of relieving that tension.

[crquack]

I played with both epees today. As suggested, I left the pressure spring alone and stretched the contact spring of both ever so slightly. I got one down to 900 gms and the other to 1100 gms with reliable activation at all angles.

Interestingly, I retested both before I did this. One connected at 1500 gms and the other at almost 1700 gms.

I shall see on Tuesday if it translates into more touches...

[DangerMouse]

Did you use shims to make sure the travel is legal?

[crquack]

Not official ones. I kind of fiddled it a bit. I shall get the official test on Tuesday at the club.

[Odd Job]

Hi,
one way of reducing the "stiffness" in a spring (This goes for foil as well)

place spring in a set of pliers
compress spring
tape jaws shut
leave for a hour or so

or use a vise

that should sort the problem out, with no hassels about cutting the spring and then having contact problems

odd Job

[HDG]

Hi,
one way of reducing the "stiffness" in a spring (This goes for foil as well)

place spring in a set of pliers
compress spring
tape jaws shut
leave for a hour or so

or use a vise
odd Job

Read the original post:

Previously I squished the spring overnight in a vise with minor improvement and the point became somewhat temperamental.