Epee Question

[Eavaheb]

I have heard by some people, the sabre is a harder weapon, and by others the epee. Now is it true that you get more bruises from using the epee than the sabre? Also, how agile and flexible do you need to be for fencing, because i certainly am not agile or flexible?

[crquack]

Weapons do not hurt people, people hurt people :-)
The answer to the other question is, IMHO, how badly do you want to win?

[Peach]

Sabre is more likely to cause welts, epee to produce bruises; it really depends on what annoys you or doesn't annoy you. Some people get white-hot with fury on being slashed with a sabre. Others are mortally offended by a poke with an epee.

Epee and sabre are both very hard and very easy, depending. Again, which one is easier for you depends on your temperament and inclinations. It's more a function of what you considerable right and reasonable. In my little sabre club, for instance, I have had students who simply could not fathom right-of-way and couldn't see why it should exist. I shunt those students to epee.

I think you need to be agile and flexible if you are planning to win a national championship. To compete successfully and have fun with it, not so much. There's a guy in his 80s at my club who can still give me a good bout, and he can barely totter.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I got two bruises today when fencing one five touch epee bout against someone who's very new---

Even though I've been teaching the brandy new sabre fencers, all of this season, those two bruises have been the only two I've received. Sabres just don't bruise me, ever. Merely kneeling will produce rediculous bruises on my knees (to the point where in the two one-act plays I was in, we costumed around that) but not sabres......

That said, you are most likely to get a bruise when fencing against someone who doesn't know how to fence very well yet.


I'm not flexible at all naturally, but during the season when I'm streching before every practice (and trying to remember to at least strech key bits of me more often) I become much more flexible.

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

you are most likely to get a bruise when fencing against someone who doesn't know how to fence very well yet.

Or, in epee an inexperienced fencer can often get bruised against an experienced fencer for moving very quickly into a point that suddenly appears where you don't expect it.

Not so many bruises in sabre, though they still happen. Flats instead of points, bigger surface area = less pressure.

[Miglin]

Originally Posted by HungryHungryHippo

Anyone who gets a bruise or a welt deserves it. If you are getting hit, you are doing something wrong. Period.

Ouch.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by HungryHungryHippo

Anyone who gets a bruise or a welt deserves it. If you are getting hit, you are doing something wrong. Period.

Well, either that or your opponent has poor Sentiment de Fer and/or point control.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

Well, either that or your opponent has poor Sentiment de Fer and/or point control.

Or HHH is one of those fencers who likes to make sweeping, incorrect statements because it sounds authoritative.

My worst bruises, actually, came when I was fencing foil, usually the result of a late counter-attack into my attack. I also got whipped around the legs by inexperianced foil fencers in tournaments quite often. My solution was FIE knickers, which cut down on the marks.

None of the weapons are injury free -- even saber, the lightest weapon, as we've seen from the spate of injuries lately due to point attacks -- but wearing proper clothing and avoiding ham-handed beginners (when possible) always helps.

Some fencers get in shape to fence, some fence to get in shape. Like any other physical skill, agility and flexiability can be improved with practice and time.

Allen

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by crquack

Weapons do not hurt people, people hurt people :-)

They just make it REALLY easy.

Ev, in all seriousness, it's hard to say which weapon is harder in competition, because in each case your opponent is always governed by the same rules.

Peach got the comments on bruising pretty much down.

As far as flexibility and agility... most fencers aren't that flexible or agile when they start. However, everyone who fences for a while will become more flexible and agile. Don't worry so much about your physical potential. What I find really governs potential is willpower and attitude. If you can keep training and fencing hard and keep a good attitude (and have good instruction) you will become a good fencer. It's almost irrefutable. I don't think I've ever seen a case over a long period of time when someone put good effort in with a decent coach and didn't turn out a halfway decent fencer. By the same token, without those two, it's pretty hard to go very far in fencing, or any sort of activity.

See you when practice starts up.

[epeemike81]

The real question is do you like polka dots or stripes?

-m

[Frater_Frag]

My worst bruises during "normal" conditions has so far been caused by the foil! One of my students managed to really hurt my wrist a few weeks ago, she is lefthanded, and during a long assault I frequently scored against her using the Octave. As a result, she tried to late, to stop it, with the result that she whacked my poor wrist while trying to stop my attack... ouch...ouch...ouch...

Epée at a local competion is another story...

And Sabre? Well, to quote Freddie N, "what doesnt kill us, only makes us stronger", (yes I love the first Conan movie!)

[Beowulfman6]

Originally Posted by Peach

Sabre is more likely to cause welts, epee to produce bruises; it really depends on what annoys you or doesn't annoy you. Some people get white-hot with fury on being slashed with a sabre. Others are mortally offended by a poke with an epee.

Epee and sabre are both very hard and very easy, depending. Again, which one is easier for you depends on your temperament and inclinations. It's more a function of what you considerable right and reasonable. In my little sabre club, for instance, I have had students who simply could not fathom right-of-way and couldn't see why it should exist. I shunt those students to epee.

I think you need to be agile and flexible if you are planning to win a national championship. To compete successfully and have fun with it, not so much. There's a guy in his 80s at my club who can still give me a good bout, and he can barely totter.

I think that says it pretty well, except for one thing- foil is the hardest weapon to master! Seriously, I don't think that one weapon is harder than any other, but I realy believe that foil is the weapon where you see the most compticated strategies and compound attacks on the average. You can certainly make a strong argument for any of the weapons on this, but I personaly could argue much stronger for foil!

Originally Posted by epeemike81

The real question is do you like polka dots or stripes?

-m

Nicely put

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Beowulfman6

foil is the hardest weapon to master! Seriously, I don't think that one weapon is harder than any other, but I realy believe that foil is the weapon where you see the most compticated strategies and compound attacks on the average.

What do you base this on?

[Coldfire]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

The real question is do you like polka dots or stripes?

-m

Stripes are all the rage

[RPI Epeeist]

Lately, sabers have been causing worse injuries than just welts. I haven't heard of anyone's hands being cut up or pierced in epee recently... or ever for that matter.

[edew]

HHH's deleted comments are totally wrong, of course. Of course you want someone to hit you, especially in foil and saber. When it's your right of way, you shouldn't care whether and how hard your opponent lays it into you. It's part of the game, unfortunately, and if done with some viciousness, the referee will trowdabummout pronto.

In epee, it's less likely that you WANT your opponent to hit you, but if you can get away with an early touch, it may require that you're willing to get nailed in the process, as long as it didn't register a touch (or if you're ahead and don't mind getting doubles).

[Beowulfman6]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

What do you base this on?

My own, admittedly limited experience and opinions.

[clonardo]

Some newbie managed to put a foil into my shin last year, which left a nasty scar (and bloodied up my favorite pair of fencing socks)

I've seen more deep tissue injuries with point weapons than with sabre. I know a few foilists and epeeists who have bled into their bicep, but the sabre injuries tend to stop at a nasty welt.

As for flexibility.. well, there are plenty of good fencers on my team who can barely touch their toes, and people who can contort themselves into pretzel shapes who have very little natural fencing talent. The same goes for physical strength. It depends on how you utilize your natural gifts in fencing.

[Zesty]

My worst injuries are with sabre. I fence all three weapons (admittedly, I've not fenced sabre for a while and epee is just a hobby, foil is my only competition weapon) and have only ever suffered more than a little bruise (goes in a day or two) with a sabre. I once ended up with a 6" bruise on my right thigh from a bad sabre cut and have been caused to bleed through my glove once (it was a big hit on my hand). However, even with 2 blades broken on me, foil and epee have only left minor bruises.

[acaba]

Originally Posted by Eavaheb

I have heard by some people, the sabre is a harder weapon, and by others the epee.

Since both the epee and sabre blades are made from the same steel, I would guess that both are about a 35-45 on a Rockwell C scale, but it would probably really depend on the individual blade and manufacturing method employed.

I more usefull comparison might be to check the hardness of the heads of the competitors...