Sixte enleve

[crquack]

I like this attack in sabre and any impact weapon over 26 inches ("an attacking roof block"). Yet in epee I cannot make it work and inevitably end up skewered.

Does anyone use this in epee? Any tricks/hints/pointers? Should one use it at all? It seems such an obvious choice against someone who is out there with his arm extended, point-in-line all the time...

[Craig]

Are you attempting a bind and control of the blade or just a tempo attack where you hit it opposition?

Craig

[Phaeton]

There is no bladework in sabre. Maybe that's why it works.

[sabreur]

There is no bladework in sabre.

Unless you count beats, thrusts and cuts with opposition, pris de fer, etc., as bladework. In which case, there is a lot of bladework in sabre....

However, there is nothing like a "sixte enleve" in sabre, unless you count an attempt to take with an extended counter three....

[jBirch]

I like this attack in sabre and any impact weapon over 26 inches ("an attacking roof block"). Yet in epee I cannot make it work and inevitably end up skewered.

Does anyone use this in epee? Any tricks/hints/pointers? Should one use it at all? It seems such an obvious choice against someone who is out there with his arm extended, point-in-line all the time...

Nobody uses it in epee for the simple reason that no epeeist has to defend against cuts. In epee, it is important to keep the tip at the opponent and the blade away from the opponent (because in epee, taking the blade somehow is often a core of many people`s game). This makes an elevated sixte, kinda useless.

Hope this helps.

- James.

[crquack]

Just lift it and slide underneath it into the body. Managed to bring one off today against a very good fencer who has not fought me for nearly a year. That may be the problem right here: People know I am going to do it! But I also see that point off line is the major weaknes of this technique

I guess it would not be called sixte enleve in sabre. I haven't got a clue what it would be called. I still call it an attacking roof block...

[sabreur]

I guess it would not be called sixte enleve in sabre. I haven't got a clue what it would be called. I still call it an attacking roof block...

It would be called a beat or invitation in quinte or counter-quinte.

[crquack]

Thank you. I learn every day.

[Mr Epee]

I like this attack in sabre and any impact weapon over 26 inches ("an attacking roof block"). Yet in epee I cannot make it work and inevitably end up skewered.

Does anyone use this in epee? Any tricks/hints/pointers? Should one use it at all? It seems such an obvious choice against someone who is out there with his arm extended, point-in-line all the time...

I would help, if I had any freakin' clue what you are talking about.

Actually... what are you talking about?

[crquack]

Not sure I can describe it any clearer. There is a picture of it in a book by Maitre Bac Tau.

[Mr Epee]

Not sure I can describe it any clearer. There is a picture of it in a book by Maitre Bac Tau.

Attacking Roof Block???

That's your best description???

And what's up with the 26" impact weapons?

Where did you find those?

[crquack]

Almost anywhere. Most of mine come from hardware or rattan store with a few baseball bats thrown in...

[jBirch]

I would help, if I had any freakin' clue what you are talking about.

Actually... what are you talking about?

Picture a "reverse quinte", with the palm supinated and held over the non-weapon side, the blade angling down and to the weapon side. He then ducks under this, extends out from the forehead and cuts to flank/arm. Some instructors call this position "elevated six" (sixte enleve), other's call it "reverse 5", 9 and the "Master's parry". Some call this attack pattern in sabre a "covered attack" where you take a parry position and attack from there (hoping to intercept any counter-actions coming in the same line). I suspect that he does this as a response to the opponent's attack to head.

He gets creamed with it because in epee:

1) he gives up a lot of distance
2) shows a lot of arm target to the opponent, who just straight attacks w/opposition (and geometry wins).
3) nobody attacks to head
4) attacks are with the tip and not the edge.

He should get creamed with it in sabre pretty soon too.

- James.

[fatfencer]

Just lift it and slide underneath it into the body. Managed to bring one off today against a very good fencer who has not fought me for nearly a year. That may be the problem right here: People know I am going to do it! But I also see that point off line is the major weaknes of this technique

I guess it would not be called sixte enleve in sabre. I haven't got a clue what it would be called. I still call it an attacking roof block...

Did you do either martial art?

FF

[crquack]

Actually, I agree with jBirch, that way one does get creamed in sabre. In other arts we would call it an attacking umbrella and I hate doing it because one leads with the arm. What I do is form the orthodox quinte rolling the blade to my right with a cut in tierce (I think, anyway, high forehand cut to the mask). I worked even better against a left-hander where the target was his arm.

My primary art for many years has been Pekiti Tirsia and Dog Bothers.

[jBirch]

Actually, I agree with jBirch, that way one does get creamed in sabre. In other arts we would call it an attacking umbrella and I hate doing it because one leads with the arm. What I do is form the orthodox quinte rolling the blade to my right with a cut in tierce (I think, anyway, high forehand cut to the mask). I worked even better against a left-hander where the target was his arm.

Now I'm confused...

This sounds to me like a straight parry 5-riposte cheek. The only modification I can see is that you take it proactively instead of reactively and with a step forward.

Is that about right?

At any rate, elevated 6 and quinte are death sentences in epee. As I'm sure you're well aware of by now. *grin*

- James.

[crquack]

Spot on on both counts! Just three final points:

!) I have seen it described in a book (see above) as a foil technique and thought it may be valid for epee, too. Apparently not so.
2) I have seen one of the very experienced fencers do something similar where he lifted the oponents blade and then did a sort of contortion where his blade ended almost under his own armpit pointing backwars. If I interpret the rules correctly, however, I suspect that it is an illegal technique as he was facing 2/3 backward. In no way could I reproduce it anyway.
3) The reason I have been beating this to death is that I fence most of the time taller opponents with longer arms and am forever looking for good ways to get their blade out of the way.