New disengage I never used

[TheSeth]

I learned tonight to start in four and feint to their four and when they try to parry four you, you disengage to their six worked great I know thats just a ramble but anyone who hasn't used it, it works great. Also, I found that it is rare that other people will start in four so it may confuse your opponent. And, when you do this move you must be ready for a circle four because when you are in four your six is WIDE open. Just thought I would share this experience with you guys.

[suterces]

Umm... you have been fencing for 3 years and you just learned how to feint 4 disengage to 6? Wow...

[TheSeth]

Yes amazing I know but its more where a ton of people just fence and there are only like 3 teachers and its hard to learn anything so I finally this year get some training to advance my technique. I need alot of help to get better.

[chefencer]

Tactical Progression of the Bout - The Tactical Wheel

[eac]

Originally Posted by TheSeth

Yes amazing I know but its more where a ton of people just fence and there are only like 3 teachers and its hard to learn anything so I finally this year get some training to advance my technique. I need alot of help to get better.

Where do you live, what club do you go to, and why is it so crappy?

[KD5MDK]

New disengage I never used

When I saw this thread title I wondered if he was intending to sell it on eBay.

[qatet]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

When I saw this thread title I wondered if he was intending to sell it on eBay.

Ohhh, I can't rep you anymore, but I want to!

[keropie]

Originally Posted by eac

Where do you live, what club do you go to, and why is it so crappy?

Of course, the corrolary question to something like this is: what kindergarten did you go to, and why was it so crappy? I mean, sure, the action he's describing is awfully elementary, and anyone with a reasonable fencing education should recognize it and make nothing much of it. It's a basic action. However, there are plenty of people out there without a reasonable fencing education, and attacking someone's main source of fencing knowledge as 'crappy' is a bit harsh.

That having been said, TheSeth, it wouldn't be a bad idea to look at some of the drills and such available on the fencing.net site (not the forums, but the main site itself... there's a link near the top of the page that says 'Training' and that might be a good place to start). Additionally, if you really do want to improve as a competitive fencer, I would second the general motion that a club where you don't learn an action such as this until the 3rd year, and then learn it as a 'type of disengage' or whatever is not the best place to go. If you're enjoying your time there, great, but other clubs could probably help you get better faster (though I don't know what other clubs may be accessible wherever you are).

There is, of course, another possibility: TheSeth could be a troll (I don't really think so, but sure, he could). If so, the rude comment is only inappropriate in that feeding trolls is such a waste of time. But if he's not a troll, we don't all have to be jerks, right?

Can't we all just get along? (Other than Inq and DU who seem to thrive on annoying people, of course )

[VELISARIOS]

Originally Posted by TheSeth

I learned tonight to start in four and feint to their four and when they try to parry four you, you disengage to their six worked great I know thats just a ramble but anyone who hasn't used it, it works great. Also, I found that it is rare that other people will start in four so it may confuse your opponent. And, when you do this move you must be ready for a circle four because when you are in four your six is WIDE open. Just thought I would share this experience with you guys.

Thanks Seth

[oiuyt]

Actually, reading the OP it sounds like the novel portion is starting the action from a 4 guard position, rather than from 6.

Then again I don't see why an opponent would make a circle-4 parry when you attack to their inside, so clearly there are some terminology difficulties compounding the communications issue.

-B

[RITFencing]

I think what he meant is that you should be ready to do a circle parry 4 if the opponent attacks into you.

Question for TheSeth: If I'm right, why not just parry 6?

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Then again I don't see why an opponent would make a circle-4 parry when you attack to their inside, so clearly there are some terminology difficulties compounding the communications issue.

To say the least!

Allen

[TheSeth]

Yes RIT Fencing you are correct. Yeah sorry guys my terminalogy is not great. Its not really three years is like 3 semesters with me just training by myself in the off seasons when there is no class. And im not a troll as far as I know. Also, not a great fencer I don't use disengages so much as trying to throw the opponent off with different techniques. Thanks for going easy on me guys this being like my third thread. I have also not been facing people in class anymore as trying to get lessons from my teachers that way I don't waste my time doing the same things when I could be learning something. I'll keep you guys posted if I do indeed turn into a troll....Thanks

[Mr Epee]

Where are you fencing?

Does anyone fence electrically at your school?

[Craig]

Originally Posted by TheSeth

I have also not been facing people in class anymore as trying to get lessons from my teachers that way I don't waste my time doing the same things when I could be learning something.

You'd be surprised how much you can learn doing the "same thing" again.

I think that you're doing yourself and the other fencers a disservice by not fencing/drilling with them. If you are better than them, it's time to teach and be the "target dummy" for a little while so that they can get better and then help you. Circle of life and all that.

Another thing you can do is take a look as some of the training resouces here: General training tips and drills. Take some of those and work on the concepts with your drill or bout partners and see what you come up with.

Cheers,
Craig

[OROD]

What is this "disengage" you all keep talking about?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by OROD

What is this "disengage" you all keep talking about?

It's what happens when you catch your fiancée in bed with someone else...

-B

[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by Craig

You'd be surprised how much you can learn doing the "same thing" again.

I think that you're doing yourself and the other fencers a disservice by not fencing/drilling with them. If you are better than them, it's time to teach and be the "target dummy" for a little while so that they can get better and then help you. Circle of life and all that.

Another thing you can do is take a look as some of the training resources here: General training tips and drills. Take some of those and work on the concepts with your drill or bout partners and see what you come up with.

Cheers,
Craig

I'm in complete agreement with Craig, but only believe that fencing is repetition more so.

Contrary to what anyone says fencing athletes are built and not born. There are few people that can't reach a decent level fencing because of fencing's nature as a repetitive activity. If you can physically learn response sets, you can fence at a basic level quite easily. The big limit is being able to intellectualize what you are doing and understand what do when you need to change and how exactly you should do it.

There are a finite number of actions, and in some weapons such as sabre, international levels of fencing functionally contain even less. People have actions that are better than others and those that they focus on. That action is going to improve if there is change and repetition of that change so it is learned.

I help coach from time to time a beginner class. There are a lot of kids that think they can lunge because I fixed an aspect of it. I can only make one correction at a time. People, especially kids, can't handle any more. Once they've got that error fixed I'll move on to the next problem. If a kid is rolling is ankle, I'll fix that first and then fix the fact he isn't lunging straight later.


People learn beat attack again and again. People practice the action, and change the action as needed. You will never stop working on beat attack. Ever. It's harsh. There is no perfect beat attack and there is always room for improvement. Repetition always be in the same frame, and it'll always be in the interest of improving. You can learn an action in many contexts and preparations. While Balestra and Lunge may not be foreign concepts, Balestra+Lunge may be.

This is a problem I know I've seen in my club, and many others. A lot of beginners think that they are somehow above repeating exercises. Let me guarantee you, you are not. You can always make your disengages better and always make your lunge more powerful. There isn't a perfect fencer in existence, and until then you need to strive to improve. Drills although repetition help enforce good habits and make actions more technical. Even bouting, if directed toward augmenting and enforcing your skill set you're working on is vital for learning. Every time you step on strip, it's a learning experience.


Ego is a big limiting factor for a lot of people. Make sure you're training has a purpose and methodology, and maybe discuss to your coach how you want to plan out your season and what actions you want to learn, but if you want to improve you are going to need to drill and bout so you can use those actions at your whim and they become part of your repertoire.

By showing up to your club you are on everyone else’s clock. That isn't a time for egotism and self centeredness. Unless you have something better to do, work with other people. Get lessons, and then dive straight into whatever everyone else is doing. Something is better than nothing, and by attending you are not only obligated to yourself to do something but the rest of the club as a whole. You are taking up club space, club attention and effecting the club energy and vibe.

If you don't want to devote time to fencing, and you don't want to repeat things, yet you still want to learn and compete at any level, then fencing isn't the sport for you. I think this aspect of fencing is why fencing isn't more popular. You will learn the same things again and again and again. It'll be a little bit different, but it's still the same action, same moment, the same idea as you've seen before with a slight twist. It's a big commitment, and I feel that if anyone shows up to my club cocky and does nothing while thinking he's good is wasting my time, because frankly I'm there to improve not to entertain any self held notions of my superiority.

I'll be on the floor doing drills, getting lessons, bouting with my focus for that training session and how that fits into my seasonal plan. Screw around if you want, but you won't improve, and simply stay out of my way. If you want to improve, I'll be glad to help all I can.

[Durando]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

It's what happens when you catch your fiancée in bed with someone else...

-B

Must. Resist. Post. Awwwh:

In France we call this "redoublement of the attack."

[Phaeton]

Hopefully no corps-a-corps took place.