Insurance

[Sabress]

I don't know what it's like in the US or anyhting, but where I am (Melbourne, Australia) there are new rules(well so it seems) coming from the insurance that prevent a lot of the old things we used to do in our fencing Sala, like students aren't allowed to give pointers to another fencer because it's considered coaching and only accredited coaches are allowed to do that. I can understand wearing full fencing attire (including long socks) when we fence but it was getting to a nit-picky stage where we can't go outside our club for a run (it must be all done withing the sala) or even kick around a ball in the sala just before warm up. Stuff like this.
I want to know does anyone else experience this either in Aus or internationally?

[Zelda]

Sabress, which rules are these???? When I left Qld in September last year I hadnt heard ANYTHING about rules like that. I know people who were fencing in shorts and a jacket and fencing shoes.But then again we may not have the paranoid insurance companies that Melbourne has......as for kicking balls around for warm up, if my black eye a few weeks ago is anything to go by its still ok in the UK..... It may just be the insurance deal your club has.........(which is which club BTW?)

[Purple Fencer]

For all the rules insurance companies may put on the books, how often are you going to see them go out and enforce them? Someone had WAY too much time on their hands.

Quite frankly, I;ve seen many fencers who are more than adequate coaches and who are not accredited. Are the ins. guys going to shut down the salle if they see an 8 year old leading a footwork class? (happens in my salle...the coach likes to rotate coaching duties to different students for exereices...gives them a view from the other side of the weapon)

[Philistine]

[quote]Originally posted by Purple Fencer:
<strong>For all the rules insurance companies may put on the books, how often are you going to see them go out and enforce them? Someone had WAY too much time on their hands.

Quite frankly, I;ve seen many fencers who are more than adequate coaches and who are not accredited. Are the ins. guys going to shut down the salle if they see an 8 year old leading a footwork class? (happens in my salle...the coach likes to rotate coaching duties to different students for exereices...gives them a view from the other side of the weapon)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Rather than a concern that the company may find out and cancel the insurance, the more legitimate concern is that the insurance company will deny a claim if an injury occurs by doing something which is outside their rules (or more likley the representations of the insured).

Thus, if someone takes a broken blade through the leg and was only wearing shorts, the worry is that insurance company could deny a claim based on that.

Similarly, if someone trips and breaks an ankle during footwork led by an 8-year old, the insurance company could deny coverage (assuming in the application the insured represented only coaches would lead footwork, or it was in the policy as a rule).

--Philistine

[Purple Fencer]

[quote]Originally posted by Philistine:
<strong>

Rather than a concern that the company may find out and cancel the insurance, the more legitimate concern is that the insurance company will deny a claim if an injury occurs by doing something which is outside their rules (or more likley the representations of the insured).

Thus, if someone takes a broken blade through the leg and was only wearing shorts, the worry is that insurance company could deny a claim based on that.

Similarly, if someone trips and breaks an ankle during footwork led by an 8-year old, the insurance company could deny coverage (assuming in the application the insured represented only coaches would lead footwork, or it was in the policy as a rule).

--Philistine</strong><hr></blockquote>


Broken blade injuries can happen to anyone, even if they're fully FIEd with gear...we all know that. And if I trip and hurt my ankle while Max Griffin (the 8-year old in question...or is he 12?) is leading the footwork drills (the he-advances-I-retreat kind), it's my fault for beign a klutz.

Think about it...we're involved in activity where we're moving in a not normal manner and we're swinging three feet of steel at each other...the fact that we have to wear a steel cage over our heads and have ballistic nylons in the top uniforms says SOMETHING about the injury risk.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

[Philistine]

[quote]Originally posted by Purple Fencer:
<strong>


Broken blade injuries can happen to anyone, even if they're fully FIEd with gear...we all know that. And if I trip and hurt my ankle while Max Griffin (the 8-year old in question...or is he 12?) is leading the footwork drills (the he-advances-I-retreat kind), it's my fault for beign a klutz.

Think about it...we're involved in activity where we're moving in a not normal manner and we're swinging three feet of steel at each other...the fact that we have to wear a steel cage over our heads and have ballistic nylons in the top uniforms says SOMETHING about the injury risk.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't disagree. Most clubs require a waiver as well, and the nature of fencing itself makes it unlikely that a person suing the club for an injury caused while fencing or practicing would succeed.

That being said, merely defending a case until it can be thrown out can cost thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars. Much of the point of insurance for fencing (IMHO) is to pick up the tab on defense costs.

I've never heard of an insurance company dumping someone (in any field) due to some sort of surprise inspection. However, it is not uncommon for an insurance company to decline coverage (and even decline paying defense costs) where it learns after a claim that the policy provisions were not complied with. Of course, I've never seen any case implicating fencing insurance...

--Philistine

[Purple Fencer]

[quote]Originally posted by Philistine:
<strong>

I've never heard of an insurance company dumping someone (in any field) due to some sort of surprise inspection. However, it is not uncommon for an insurance company to decline coverage (and even decline paying defense costs) where it learns after a claim that the policy provisions were not complied with. Of course, I've never seen any case implicating fencing insurance...

--Philistine</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well, yeah...

I think it was Storey Musgrave who told a tale of an insurance agent coming to his home, giving his entiure sales pitch, and THEN asking what Musgrave did for a living. Keep in mind that this is a man with more degrees than a thermometer. When Musgrave told the salesman that he was an astronaut, the poor guy packed up & left. Talk about a dangeros career field!

"What do you do for a living, Mr, Musgrave?"
"Well, every so often I sit with a few close friends on top of about a million pounds of high explosive and get shot into space."

*cricket-cricket-cricket*

[Sabress]

Zelda: I'm from the Fioretto Fencing Club in Melboune.

Philistine, thankyou, you hit the nail right on the head(regarding explaining in your first post).
When someone fences they obviously know they're gonna get hurt.
So from know on should we just fence like Michellin men, wra[pped up in cotton wool, so puffy we're hardly able to move our arms, and use those foam novelty sabres????!!

[Sabress]

P.S: Zelda, it's been since this year.

[Zelda]

Might explain it...but I still communicate with friends in Brissy and they aint said anything to me about changes in rules.... Hell last time I saw a pic of the Salle 2/3 of the guys were in shorts and fencing with padding. I could only JUST see David showing someone how to hook up and I have NO idea who was giving lessons!!! It isnt just a VAFA insurance thing????

[Sabress]

Oh Look Zelda I think it is, and it's really getting , not only on the nerves of a lot of fencers, but to a lot of the coaches as well.

[Zelda]

Note to self, must find out what the conditions at the Vic comp were....
Sabress, dunno what to do, except talk to the powers that be at VAFA......

[Sabress]

Zelda: Try the Australian Institute of Sport.

I think it's fencers and Ice Hockey players that are worst hit by this.