Popularity of Fencing

[seltzerwater]

I think the answer is more obvious. In my opinion, I belive fencing is the up and coming sport. Fifteen years ago my son started soccer. There were hardly any club teams and certainly no feeder programs in lower level schools to speak of. Now, the elementary schools have soccer and lax after school programs, town teams, club teams etc. Even the regional teams (Y- league) were created just 5 years ago. My point is that it just takes time. In the year that we have been involved in fencing, I notice new clubs are springing up and more and more younger fencers are joining. I believe it is just a matter of time that it's popularity catches up to soccer and Lax.

[reawl]

At my club we try to address this issue directly. How do we do that you ask?
1) Fencing must be easy to get into, so we provide equipment.
2) Fencing must be available at convenient times, so we offer it in the evenings to avoid conflicts and at two of the four local high schools (with plans to offer at the other two).
3) We get non-fencers involved as spectators. Parents, friends, relatives. The more people that know fencing exists, the more likely we are to see an increase in membership.
4) We publish EVERYTHING in the newspaper. We do demos out in the street or for local clubs & libraries.
5) We work on "cutting the strings" from the fencing salle. Right now I'm developing a software scoring machine you could load on a laptop so that kids could ideally fence in their driveway, just like basketball.

What do I expect? I expect that I can support a small business until this generation gets through and has kids of their own; kids who'll want to fence because their parents did, and parents who'll want fencing to be available will take up positions like coach or assistant coach for their son or daughter's school. I expect this to take time.

[guardup]

What do I expect? I expect that I can support a small business until this generation gets through and has kids of their own; kids who'll want to fence because their parents did, and parents who'll want fencing to be available will take up positions like coach or assistant coach for their son or daughter's school. I expect this to take time.

Some questions for you:

What do you expect will happen when this next generation comes along?

How is this different than what you are doing today?

Are there any resources you can think of that would be useful to you for making this transition happen sooner?

Thanks!

[reawl]

For the next generation, locally anyway, I expect that more of their parents will be proactive in exposing their children to fencing. Instead of someone putting fencing in their face and relying on a child's facination with swords, the parents will sign their child up for fencing so that they can "try it out" just like soccer, basketball, or any other sport.

For the home school group in our area, there is one organization that handles basketball, cheerleading, baseball, and soccer. Right now we are making efforts to have fencing added to that program. It would be a matter of a parent checking a box for fencing, instead of having to seek us out. It makes it easier for them to do fencing, but we still need a reason to convince parents to select fencing in place of or in addition to the other sports.

[rvergara]

Here in Ecuador, for the vast majority of the people there is ONLY ONE sport: soccer. I personally had no idea there was fencing in our country until I got to college and met my coach. At the time I started fencing, there was a gap in the fencing generations. The fencers where all either retiring from competition and going into coaching, or simply retiring. For the first couple of years i fenced, they called the juniors to the adult category competition so they could have one. Most of my generation comes from a single private high school sponsored by the german government, where they came in contact with fencing. There's also my club, from a university, and the military.
But also with my generation came the new generation of officials for the fencing association at province and national level. They displaced the old majors and colonels that used to run things, and now the sport is far more open to civilians. Now there's a big billboard on one of the busiest intersections in town, with a guy lunging (on the side of the soccer stadium). This was set by the fencing association to promote the sport.
I think that exposure is what fencing needs. What got me into fencing was curiosity at first, i wanted to see what it was about and got hooked. I know for a fact that the same happens to others, at my university we have 4 fencing classes per semester, and we always get 10-15 people in each. Most of them get discouraged when they realize it's going to take them years to get competitive, as opposed to soccer where they can be in the varsity team after two weeks of training. Yet a few carry on and keep training.
What we don't have now is the next generation. There are no 12 or 13 year olds starting up, and to be honest, I have no idea how to sell fencing to that age group.
In the 1996 olympics, an ecuadorian race-walker won the gold medal, our first in history. Obviously he got huge media coverage, and suddenly every place where one could train for track and field got flooded with children and teenagers wanting to race-walk.
My point is that exposure is very important, that's why we are working on moving our competitions from the military college (our version of West Point) to my university's sports arena and look for somemedia coverage.

[eac]

Here in Ecuador,

[snip]

Most of my generation comes from a single private high school sponsored by the german government,

Might I ask how it works that the german government sponsors a private high school in Ecuador?

[rvergara]

I don't know how does it work exactly. It's a school sponsored by the german community/embassy. They take some classes in german, have exchange programs with Germany, etc.

[michaelm]

I must agre that 'Sunshine' is a darn good movie, nicely mixing in the (somewhat) fictionalized life of Atilla Petschauer

However: I have seen 'By the Sword' recommended in a number of places but can't find it... Blockbuster doesn't carry it (duh!) and neither does Netflix (even though they have a large library of F. Murray Abraham dogs). Anyone have an idea where one may acquire a copy?

[SabreBlair]

Fencing just isn't interesting to watch to the non-fencer. (I would say baseball isn't either, but a few million people would disagree with me)

It's also confusing as all get out until you understand right-of-way. At least it was for me, until I learned it.

[Mr Epee]

Did you know that sport participation, in America, maximizes at age 12 and drops sharply after?

Did you also know that most fencing clubs don't have programs directed for kids Y12-Y10 and below?

Ballet schools and Martial Arts schools make a killing at recruiting kids at this age. Fencing "coaches" generally neglect these age groups.

[debrobjosh]

However: I have seen 'By the Sword' recommended in a number of places but can't find it... Blockbuster doesn't carry it (duh!) and neither does Netflix (even though they have a large library of F. Murray Abraham dogs). Anyone have an idea where one may acquire a copy?

I believe it is only on VHS. I got my copy (used) off of e-bay. Just did a quick check on Amazon, it is listed under VHS, but only from third parties.

Since Amazon was kind enough to have one, here is the plot synopsis: A mysterious man, Suba, gets himself a job at a fencing academy, and as he learns the way of the students, the school, and its maestro, they learn that there's more to him than meets the eye. He gains (or regains?) his fencing skills and his philosophy of teaching clashes with the maestro's. As they are thrown into conflict, Suba and the maestro's past appear to be linked. And the resolution of their mysterious relationship may be a duel to the death.

Good film. Odd, but good.

[Craig]

Did you know that sport participation, in America, maximizes at age 12 and drops sharply after?

Did you also know that most fencing clubs don't have programs directed for kids Y12-Y10 and below?

Ballet schools and Martial Arts schools make a killing at recruiting kids at this age. Fencing "coaches" generally neglect these age groups.

At what age do those programs start? 6? Younger?

What do fencing clubs need to obtain in order to serve that market?
(I assume more #0 and #2 blades, plastic training sets for introductory classes...)

Craig

[chefencer]

At what age do those programs start? 6? Younger?

What do fencing clubs need to obtain in order to serve that market?
(I assume more #0 and #2 blades, plastic training sets for introductory classes...)

Craig

Our club has three Y age groups. We have a program (Pages) for 6-8's using LP's Mini-Fence. We have two classes (Squires) for the 8-12 set who fence with steel and have quarterly electric scrimmages between the two classes. We have a class for the 13+ (Knights) whose focus is electric with encouragement to attend local competitions. Entry into any of these groups is gained by completion of beginner's class. We are currently trying to put together an informal 'league' along the lines of soccer travel leagues or the NJ HS fencing league for both the HS and U12 age groups with the idea of creating more oportunity for Y's to compete with one another. In fact, Monday night we put together our first Knights Varsity and JV fencing teams to go to another local salle to fence their club. All of this is made possible by the dedication and talents of our volunteer coaches and parents, as our club is member owned and non-profit. I'd say the Huge majority of active fencers in our club are Y's or parents of Y's and while I'd appreciate more grown-ups, I'm very excited by the potential growth in fencing in this area, through this program and I'm proud to be a part of it.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Did you know that sport participation, in America, maximizes at age 12 and drops sharply after?

Did you also know that most fencing clubs don't have programs directed for kids Y12-Y10 and below?

Ballet schools and Martial Arts schools make a killing at recruiting kids at this age. Fencing "coaches" generally neglect these age groups.

I make the killing that those other fencing coaches don't.

Hush hush, I don't want the other coaches to know.

[Mr Epee]

At what age do those programs start? 6? Younger?

What do fencing clubs need to obtain in order to serve that market?
(I assume more #0 and #2 blades, plastic training sets for introductory classes...)

Craig

Obviously, the programs vary from place to place, but I've looked into organizations with programs that cater to kids as young as 4. Not surprisingly the youth classes are mostly what I would call themed play.

Basically, what you need to serve those kids is a bunch of toys - stuff like balance boards, cones, etc....

[Phaeton]

There are a few things that stop fencing from becoming as popular as it could potentially be:

I think very much part of is the nature of the sport. Fencing is repetition, lots and lots of repetition. In some ways this is a lot more than in other sports simply due to the fact that fencing is an individual sport, and individual sports a whole seem to be less popular than team sports.

Fencing also has a somewhat high buy in. Equipment is expensive, and so is the entry free for competition. If I'm part of a lacrosse team, my games are pretty well included, if I'm a fencer, I have to go ahead and find which tournaments I want to go to, and schlep to wherever they are in addition to paying the entree fee.

Arguably, to get decent at fencing there is also a much higher time commitment involved.

I'm heading all over the country this season, and I have friends in the PCS circuit that in order to get a good number of tournaments end up heading all over California and Nevada.

As for fencers that don't want to compete: From what I've seen there are a lot of clubs that arn't all that savvy to the notion of having Rec fencers as normal members. Most clubs are geared toward competition, but it has to be realized that Rec fencers may bring in friends or later themselves turn into competitive fencers.

There's also the issue that fencing to an uneducated eye makes next to no sense. I've taken friends, family, and people of all kinds to watch fencing and they have no idea what is going on. RoW is extremely hard to undrstand and there are plenty of fencers (including myself) that don't have the most concrete understanding. Enjoying watching fencing (when it doesn’t have any crazy acrobatic antics) requires some understanding of timing, distance, and tempo.

There's a lot of talk about cashing on the martial arts niche, but there are a few things that martial arts have that fencing lacks:

The majority don't have weapons, or at least avoid them until advanced levels. This gives anxious parents some rest, after all, which sounds more dangerous, hitting someone or whacking them with a sword.

On the other side of that is because they lack a weapon, they actually in theory have some practicality in self defense. Fencing doesn't.

and

Most martial arts classes come bundled with a strict moral code. Parents often send kids to classes like that to gain discipline, fencing really lacks anything like that.

Furthermore people to a large degree are very ignorant of fencing. People have a friend's friend that tried it once for a week, and there a lot of misconceptions. That and the lack of advertising keeps people from fencing. Until I actually started fencing I didn't know about the amount of fencing in my area because it was next to invisible. This summer I amazingly saw some fencing advertising at comicon (albeit very unprofessional looking and much ignored)....

[guardup]

Our facility caters to youth students (fencers and other styles of swordsmanship). We start as young as 4 years of age in our Little Knights Program... with our proprietary foam covered foils (which have a nylon bushing core so you can actually parry and thrust).

Yes, most of the younger classes involve fencing games. And we are big on teaching character development such as honor, discipline, respect, etc (much like martial arts classes). Little Knights have to pass a rather involved assessment before they are allowed to "duel" each other (until then, they can only bout with the coach).

We have a reward and ranking system with achievement badges and a progression to the next class: Musketeers (6-8) and then on to Youth (8-10) and Youth 2 (11-15).

As a side note, we are not a competitive facility... very few fencers go to tournaments. Most, if not all, are recreational fencers.

One of our biggest areas of growth has been in our offsite afterschool programs. We send instructors to local public and private schools to teach fencing or swordsmanship to their students. This allows for us to expand our student base without expanding our floor space.

Our biggest hurdle right now is finding enough instructors for our 48 swordsmanship and fencing classes a week (not including offsite classes). Plug: So... if you know some available coaches in the Boston area...