09-07-2006, 05:01 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 568
| Another quick question
I have bad feet due to being flat-footed (thanks Mom!). Can I take off my shoes and rub them down during the breaks? I read something about not undressing on strip, but people take their masks off all the time, which would seem to be a technical violation of the rule.
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09-07-2006, 06:07 AM
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#2 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 21,854
| I haven't been able to find any mention of shoes in the rules at all. Socks, yes, but nothing about shoes. What penalty could a ref use to sanction a fencer in socks only? I don't know. Unsafe action? Could a card survive an appeal? I am almost tempted to appear at a tournament in my sock-feet just to find out. 
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09-07-2006, 07:13 AM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Athos FC ~)---------- San Francisco, CA
Posts: 2,157
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata ...What penalty could a ref use to sanction a fencer in socks only?... | Group IV offense: Chemical weapons on the strip!
It's an automatic Black Card.
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09-07-2006, 08:13 AM
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#4 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 21,854
| My feet retain the faint odor of the heavenly clouds which erst they trod, I'l have you know. :P
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09-07-2006, 09:07 AM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Meadville, PA
Posts: 567
| Do you mean the breaks between bouts? By all means, rub away. Do you mean the breaks in between periods in a DE bout? You'll have to be quick. The break is only a minute long. Do you mean breaks between the director calling "halt" and calling "ready fence"? No.
Tomas | |
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09-07-2006, 09:09 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Meadville, PA
Posts: 567
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata I haven't been able to find any mention of shoes in the rules at all. Socks, yes, but nothing about shoes. What penalty could a ref use to sanction a fencer in socks only? I don't know. Unsafe action? Could a card survive an appeal? I am almost tempted to appear at a tournament in my sock-feet just to find out. | I recommend working your way up. Start with pink bunny slippers, see if those fly, then try white athletic socks, then try fishnet stockings.
Tomas | |
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09-07-2006, 09:19 AM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 568
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Tomas N Do you mean the breaks between bouts? By all means, rub away. Do you mean the breaks in between periods in a DE bout? You'll have to be quick. The break is only a minute long. Do you mean breaks between the director calling "halt" and calling "ready fence"? No.
Tomas | I meant between periods in a DE. I could pull it off pretty quickly.
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09-07-2006, 09:44 AM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 254
| I saw the video of I think last years men's saber world championship (?) and there was one guy that kept falling down claiming a cramp in his calf or something (interestingly enough the little drama queen would do it every time he was about to get scored on). He was granted time to rub it out. I would imagine that if that was ok then you might be granted time to do something similar.
EDIT: It sounded like I might be calling you a drama queen. That is absolutley NOT what I intended. | |
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09-07-2006, 10:01 AM
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#9 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 21,854
| Moreover, I have seen fencers literally lunge out of their shoe while fencing. Why is this not penalized as undressing on the strip? Or in the case of an epeeist maybe 'dangerous action'*. IT'S AN OUTRAGE! 
( *What am I saying, epeeists never lunge that hard.  )
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09-07-2006, 11:52 AM
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#10 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,936
| I wouldn't allow it, and my opinion is probably more important to you than anybody else who has posted in this thread. | |
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09-07-2006, 12:19 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Somewhere between Pennsylvania and Connecticut
Posts: 117
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by KD5MDK I wouldn't allow it, and my opinion is probably more important to you than anybody else who has posted in this thread. | Removing your shoes for the purposes of rubbing your feet during the 1 minute break(s) in a DE would not be allowed by most referees - including me.
The undressing on the strip rule (among other potential rules) would apply and would, I believe, be upheld upon appeal (and since there's at least some chance that I would be the person hearing the appeal you could count on it in those cases). Should you choose to question this interpretation you would then leave yourself open to another card for an unjustified appeal.
Sorry... Rubbing your feet between bouts is, of course, fine.
Greg | |
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09-07-2006, 03:31 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 568
| Thanks KD5 and Greg. I was really hoping KD5 or Mauler would answer for me. Greg, I guess you're a ref too, welcome to the forum!
So why is the rule like that? I can't really install any sort of "cheating device" in my shoe, and fencers get to take their masks off during the breaks.
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The pen may be mightier than the sword, but why pick just one?
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09-07-2006, 03:37 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,689
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Originally Posted by TrainingDummy Greg, I guess you're a ref too, welcome to the forum! | ahah. ahahahaa.. hehehehee. Yes. Yes he is. You should listen to what he says. | |
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09-07-2006, 03:43 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Somewhere between Pennsylvania and Connecticut
Posts: 117
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by TrainingDummy Thanks KD5 and Greg. I was really hoping KD5 or Mauler would answer for me. Greg, I guess you're a ref too, welcome to the forum!
So why is the rule like that? I can't really install any sort of "cheating device" in my shoe, and fencers get to take their masks off during the breaks. | It doesn't, in this case, have to do with cheating. It has to do with presentation. People are allowed to take their masks off because, for presentation, being able to see people's faces and their reactions are a positive rather than a negative. Watching someone rub their feet would generally not be construed in the same light.
Greg | |
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09-07-2006, 03:50 PM
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#15 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,452
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by TrainingDummy Greg, I guess you're a ref too, welcome to the forum! | Yeah, word on the street is he's not TOO bad.
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But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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09-07-2006, 03:51 PM
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#16 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,452
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Originally Posted by Greg_D It doesn't, in this case, have to do with cheating. It has to do with presentation. People are allowed to take their masks off because, for presentation, being able to see people's faces and their reactions are a positive rather than a negative. Watching someone rub their feet would generally not be construed in the same light.
Greg | Would there also be delay issues? It's much quicker to whip on and off a mask than it is with shoes.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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09-07-2006, 03:54 PM
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#17 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,254
| TrainingDummy- For a bit of background about the reaction you're getting, check out this page and scroll down to the third person -- Greg_D.
-B
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09-07-2006, 04:00 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,353
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by oiuyt TrainingDummy- For a bit of background about the reaction you're getting, check out this page and scroll down to the third person -- Greg_D.
-B | Oh my, thats priceless. Don't worry 'Dummy, I certainly didn't know either. 
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09-07-2006, 04:37 PM
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