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KC · 05-14-2002, 05:18 AM

Ok so you've all bashed BTS (and righfully so)... So what is the best fencing movie out there? IMHO its Scaramouche with Stuart Granger and Janet Leigh... That has the cleanest fencing that I have ever seen in a movie. Not to mention the longest duel I have ever seen.

So what's it gonna be?

Purple Fencer · 05-14-2002, 06:16 AM

[quote]Originally posted by KC:
Ok so you've all bashed BTS (and righfully so)... So what is the best fencing movie out there? IMHO its Scaramouche with Stuart Granger and Janet Leigh... That has the cleanest fencing that I have ever seen in a movie. Not to mention the longest duel I have ever seen.

So what's it gonna be?<hr></blockquote>

You've gotta be kidding...it's not even good stage combat! Parries are wide enough to go around an elephant, and there's so much smacking of the baldes together purely for effect...

You want a GOOD fencing scene, with two guys who actually KNOW what they're doing? Basil Rathbone/Tyrone Power - The Mark of Zorro. STILL the best on-screen duel ever.

Yes, there were some moves that were a little too large for real life -- you need that in stage combat -- but the majorty of the blade work was tight and controlled.

KC · 05-14-2002, 06:53 AM

I have both movies, and I still like Scaramouche better... But hey that's why I asked I wanted to know everybody's thoughts...

Maybe I can see one that I haven't seen yet...

Can anyone give a review of the "Duelist"? I haven't seen that one yet.

engardemisami · 05-14-2002, 07:40 AM

Well then you guys have not seen the latest remake of THE COUNT of MONTE CRISTO. What fencing moves! And you missed all the fencing training! Like the hand and wrist training with dripping water. How about fencing with a twig against an old man! And the diet! Roasted rats!. Just imagine, the COUNT was tortured in a drippy wet, dark dungeon for 13 years and he came out with muscles bulging, go deep water diving and fence like crazy. Could be the fencing movie of all time. A must see piece of C@*&#!

KC · 05-14-2002, 08:45 AM

erm.... so you didn't like it?

I haven't seen it yet.

Corvus Rex · 05-14-2002, 10:09 AM

The best and most realistic fencing I have seen in a movie is in the Four Musketeers. For those younger fencers, it came out in the early 70's and has some great stars in it. Excellent flick!

I would rate the fight towards the end between D'Artagnan and his one eyed antagonist as one of the best for the fact it was very well done and realistic. Over the course of the fight, both are injured, which affects their abilities, and their stamina drops as both nearly drop from exhaustion from the long and vicious fight. We fencers know how tiring a sporting bout can be, just imagine one nonstop for your life!

Movie fights often seem to go on forever without seeming to effect the duelists, this just reminds me as a fencer that the fight I am watching is between actors, staged and spliced togather by actors who get to take breaks between shots, kind of ruins losing yourself in the story.

Check out the film if you have not seen it. It is much better than the living cartoon version that Micky Mouse produced a few years ago...

D'Artagnan1673 · 05-14-2002, 12:29 PM

I cannot say much on Scarmamouche since I've never seen it. I will therefore stick with what I know.

Mark of Zorro. Very good fencing scenes from two of Hollywood's finest swordsmen. It still not my favorite.

Three/Four Musketeers. Yes, this was some excellent, non-romanticized sword fighting. Corvus is right in that both D'Artagnan and the Comte de Rochefort are thoroughly exhuasted at the end, making for a very realistic fight. They conserve their energy for sudden, all out thrusts only to fall back exhausted again. I've fought bouts were I felt that way. I can certainly relate to the fights in that movie.

The Scarlet Pimpernel. Ok, so Anothony Andrews acts like a dandy too much, but anyone who can woo Jane Seymour is good in my book. Still, the duel between Andres and Sir Ian Mckellen (Gandalph) is one of my favorites. It is fought with sabres and has a humourous "touch". Andrews uses his calmness and superior skill to take the buttons off Mckellen's vest. The fight includes the use of the point and cuts that aren't too bad.

Hehe, the Count of Monte Cristo was fair to poor. The first scene where Dantes and Mondego fight prior to the arrest was nice. Mondego used some nice disengages. The last duel was a terrible mistake. It looked like a clash between Mission Impossible 2 and Gladiator, ridiculous and poorly cut. Considering that Monte Cristo is my favorite book, I have to say that I was highly dissapointed and insulted by the way the story was treated.

Fencing Angel · 05-14-2002, 02:08 PM

Princess Bride.... that's gotta have one of the BEST fencing parts in a movie ever..

again IMHO..

135711 · 05-14-2002, 03:13 PM

COUNT of MONTE CRISTO.
Interestingly, I recently purchased a 6.99 complete works of Edgar Alan Poe and there are similarities.

Inquartata · 05-14-2002, 04:53 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KC:
Can anyone give a review of the "Duelist"? I haven't seen that one yet.<hr></blockquote>

It's a great flick. The sabre duel in the basement is IMO the most realistic swordfight on film.

It's an adaptation of a story by Joseph Conrad, itself based on a true story. Why they felt the need to fiddle with the details of history I have never understood, since the way it actually happened would have made a better story, I think---maybe they just didn't think the public could accept a movie without a clear-cut "villain", so they turned Harvey Keitel's character into a lunatic ( not much acting needed there, heh heh! ).

Essentially, Keitel, a prickly, duel-happy sociopath, challenges the reluctant Carradine to a duel on a rather flimsy pretext. The two prove fairly evenly matched, and each time they duel ( over the course of more than 20 years ) Keitel refuses to be "satisfied", since neither is ever killed. There's a lot of ancillary stuff thrown in---love affairs, Carradine's angst over the whole affair, and what not. But the meat of the movie ( at least for me ) is of course the duelling scenes. These are as I have said the most realistic on film, showing the fear, the blood and gore, the physical exhaustion, the elation of survival, etc, which you don't get in the typical rapier-thru-the-chest-now-fall-down-and-die-tidily flick...

Gav · 05-14-2002, 08:53 PM

yeah The Sabre Duel - fantastic. This is one of my favourite films. I am assuming KC is reffering to it as it's 'The Duellists" cos there's two.

D'Artagnan1673 · 05-14-2002, 09:25 PM

I find it so annoying that most movies have to have an absolute villain.

Take the Man in the Iron Mask for example. In the movie, Louis XIV is clearly the villain. In the book, Louis XIV is not that bad. If anything, Aramis is to be considered the villain. In this story, the ministers also play the role of minor villains in that although their administration is sound, Dumas' dislikes them upon personality bases. It seems to me that audiences cannot relate to the protagonist unless there is a clear cut villain.

If done well, the villain syndrone can work. Lets take the brilliant and type casted villain Tim Roth for example. In both Rob Roy and The Musketeer, Roth plays a villain. In Rob Roy, Roth's character is devilishly sinister but is given enough character background that the viewer can believe in his character. However, take the poorly written Musketeer and you will find a thin, shallow villain in the same actor. We know from his other movie that he can act sinister. It is most likely therefore that it is the poor script and development that makes Roth's villain in the Musketeer so weak.

To my knowledge, Tim Roth was originally set to play Professor Snape in Harry Potter. I think that he would have been much better in this movie. Still, the excellent Alan Rickman did a great job of conveying this character to the screen. Its just a shame that Columbus took his job with Harry Potter so poorly. He needs to watch LOTR several times and find out where the magic is on that movie.

Pa55w0rd · 05-15-2002, 01:33 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Fencing Angel:
Princess Bride.... that's gotta have one of the BEST fencing parts in a movie ever..

again IMHO..

<hr></blockquote>

Absolutely, and the "why are you smiling.... cos i know something you dont know" superb.

sideline ...
does anyone else talk to their opponent whilst fencing ?

KC · 05-15-2002, 05:23 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Gav:
. I am assuming KC is reffering to it as it's 'The Duellists" cos there's two.<hr></blockquote>

Picky, picky, picky,

On the note of talking during a bout. Heck I have been known to spout off poetry while fencing... (self composed of course)

D'Artagnan1673 · 05-15-2002, 05:28 AM

And then as I enter the refrain.....

reptile · 05-15-2002, 09:47 AM

Scaramouche - this movie is reason enough to fence!!! I wish real life was more like Scaramouche - and not Scaramouche more realistic...

[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: reptile ]

D'Artagnan1673 · 05-16-2002, 06:51 PM

Attack of the Clones. That is reason enough to drop our foils, epees and sabres and run to the toy section of wal mart.

SäbelFechter · 05-16-2002, 08:51 PM

"My name is Diego Montoya and you killed my father. Prepare to die!"

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: SäbelFechter ]

lochinvar · 05-17-2002, 04:55 AM

Um...that's Inigo Montoya, Sabelfechter...

lochinvar · 05-17-2002, 05:13 AM

[quote]Originally posted by engardemisami:
 ...Just imagine, the COUNT was tortured in a drippy wet, dark dungeon for 13 years and he came out with muscles bulging, go deep water diving and fence like crazy...<hr></blockquote>

Exactly so.

I was wondering myself about the Count, who fed on rats and gruel and had little to no physical exercise or conditioning. Yet somehow he is able to wrestle with and drown his well-fed and presumable healthy jailor, swim to the mainland, and then win a knife fight against a presumably well-fed and healthy pirate.

What a marvel he must have been.