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Tomas N · 08-26-2006, 09:25 AM

I'm the advisor of the fencing club at Allegheny College. A coach of another club in the area emailed me the other week asking whether we wanted to have a scrimmage at some point. This probably doesn't sound like a big deal to you, but for college fencing in our region, it's a big step forward. There probably hasn't been a college-only meet in the region for decades. There are a bunch of schools in Western PA and Northern OH that have some type of fencing (a pretty wide variation, but mostly at the USFA D, E and U rating levels). I figured we might think about starting up a fencing league of all the clubs in the area. So here's the question. How do more established college club leagues around the country operate? Do you have articles of association, membership requirments, tournaments, championships, reciprocal agreements? I looked for information in previous threads, but haven't found any specific information on this topic.

Tomas

KD5MDK · 08-26-2006, 09:50 AM

The Southwest Intercollegiate Fencing Association is coming back together after some time in official limbo.

Here is a link to the website: http://home.austin.rr.com/swifa/

Here is a link to the discussion thread where the current bylaws were hammered out:
http://campechesteel.proboards15.com...ead=1141629335

Wafath · 08-26-2006, 10:47 AM

BWCFC (Baltimore-Washington Collegiate Fencing Conference) consists of nine club teams. We are entering our third year.

The conference consists of a dual meet round-robin, and an individual championships. Almost all of the dual meets are fenced at a fall meet or a spring meet. A few meets happen at schools individually. (Two of the member schools are litterally across the street from each other.)

The championship is an individual competition, where initial seeding is based on the fencers record throughout the year. We typically have two rounds of pools, followed by a DE.

The championship determines individual rankings. Team rankings are determined by dual meet records. We give out trophies for overall team, foil team, epee team and sabre team, places 1 - 3. Teams are ordered by Match victories, then by bout victories, and then by indicators.

Membership officially requires that all fencers are students. Unofficially, we ask that teams to not field active NCAA fencers. Considering the conference is developmental, we have never had the issue come up.

If you (or anyone) would like to see our constitution, statistics records, or anything else, please let me know.

And, in case you had any doubts, do-it-yourself is the only way to go with this sort of thing in most places of the country. Best of luck,

W

oiuyt · 08-26-2006, 12:09 PM

To start with I wouldn't worry about establishing a conference.

Start with scrimmages. Inviting more than just the two colleges is a good idea. With newer teams an individual format usually works better than a team format, which penalizes a school for not being able to field a full 9-person roster with proper splits between the weapons. Eventually dual meets should be a target as they're more fun, encourage growth of the teams, result in better records to be kept for future years, and can get your teams ready for more higher-level competition as growth warrants.

Start setting regular dates where certain schools fence each other annually. Build history, build expectations, build regular schedules.

If you get a conference set running with a bunch of the schools that you mention then in a few years it might be worthwhile to start talking about have an inter-conference annual meet with BWCFC. Sort of an alternating thing that's hosted one year by BWCFC and the next by the Erie Fencing Conference (or whatever) where, say, four teams from each conference gather and compete against the teams from the other conference. 6-7 hour drives, but that's doable. But that discussion is well down the road.

-B

acaba · 08-26-2006, 02:34 PM

The Virginia Tech website has a good page of links to the MACFA (mid-Atlantic collegiate fencing assoc.) at: http://www.fencing.org.vt.edu/links.html

The 'official' MACFA site is a few years outdated, but has some info.

Aaron

noodle · 08-26-2006, 04:28 PM

USACFC website

MyrddinsPrecint · 08-27-2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodle

USACFC website

Yes, but if they're so new a club that they find being asked to fence another school a "big step forward," perhaps the USACFC is something to aspire to rather than something they should consider for this year....

KD5MDK · 08-27-2006, 12:13 PM

Particularly if they're in PA, it might make more sense to aim for a closer first location, like Smith, than Texas.

Beowulfman6 · 08-27-2006, 12:21 PM

I've alwayse thought that it would be cool to have some sort of college club league such as the ones mentioned, but for small schools with new programs it's probably better to just contact all the other schools within a reasonable distance and try to set something up informaly.

I've tried to do this myself, but only one other school has shown any interest.

noodle · 08-27-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beowulfman6

I've alwayse thought that it would be cool to have some sort of college club league such as the ones mentioned, but for small schools with new programs it's probably better to just contact all the other schools within a reasonable distance and try to set something up informaly.

I've tried to do this myself, but only one other school has shown any interest.

clemson's still interested, yo

noodle · 08-27-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Yes, but if they're so new a club that they find being asked to fence another school a "big step forward," perhaps the USACFC is something to aspire to rather than something they should consider for this year....

the point of the organization is for anyone who wants to join can join. if they have a few D's in their club, they're not that bad off. they might be interested, and the experience gained from it might be beneficial for the following season to show them how to create a more local event.

smurfette · 08-28-2006, 01:51 AM

Scrimmages! I love it. It's so ... charming. And great. And grade school. In a good way.

LUDICROUS · 08-28-2006, 01:58 AM

and e-sporty...

rcmatthews · 08-28-2006, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodle

clemson's still interested, yo

Yeah, I am interested too. The problem at my school is finding eight other people who are also.

Tomas N · 08-28-2006, 08:27 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure the USACFC is an option at this point, unless we get a bunch of first year students who started off with some experience. It's in the back of my mind as something to do in the future. The "league" also won't happen for a couple of years, but I was interested in a model to work towards. I'd predict that it will never be the case that enough schools in the region will have all three weapons and enough fencers on a yearly basis to run a standard team tournament format. It'll have to start with something a lot more ad hoc.

Tomas

noodle · 08-28-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomas N

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure the USACFC is an option at this point, unless we get a bunch of first year students who started off with some experience. It's in the back of my mind as something to do in the future. The "league" also won't happen for a couple of years, but I was interested in a model to work towards. I'd predict that it will never be the case that enough schools in the region will have all three weapons and enough fencers on a yearly basis to run a standard team tournament format. It'll have to start with something a lot more ad hoc.

Tomas

see, this doesn't make sense to me. why won't anything happen for years?

are you guys short? don't have a full 6 weapon team? whats your club look like?

Wafath · 08-28-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomas N

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure the USACFC is an option at this point, unless we get a bunch of first year students who started off with some experience. It's in the back of my mind as something to do in the future. The "league" also won't happen for a couple of years, but I was interested in a model to work towards. I'd predict that it will never be the case that enough schools in the region will have all three weapons and enough fencers on a yearly basis to run a standard team tournament format. It'll have to start with something a lot more ad hoc.

I appreciate the difficulty you are facing, but do not underestimate the value of a league, esp as it relates to recruitment and retention of fencers.

Oiuyt is correct in reminding us the difficulty of establishing a club to the point where you can comfortably field a 3 or 6 weapon team. But once you are there, I advise you run with it. It does your fencers no good to be sitting around. If you can beg/steal/finagle meets with your neighbors without a league, great, but if you can get a league, go for it. Every year you have students graduating who deserve a shot at real competition.

W

noodle · 08-28-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wafath

I appreciate the difficulty you are facing, but do not underestimate the value of a league, esp as it relates to recruitment and retention of fencers.

Oiuyt is correct in reminding us the difficulty of establishing a club to the point where you can comfortably field a 3 or 6 weapon team. But once you are there, I advise you run with it. It does your fencers no good to be sitting around. If you can beg/steal/finagle meets with your neighbors without a league, great, but if you can get a league, go for it. Every year you have students graduating who deserve a shot at real competition.

W

to expand a bit upon this -- when i joined my collegiate club, it was a group of 7 fencers. we started to compete collegiately with this number, and it then grew to cover a full 6 weapon team. it is my opinion that the collegiate competition experience will breed the numbers, not the other way around.

Tomas N · 08-28-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodle

see, this doesn't make sense to me. why won't anything happen for years?

are you guys short? don't have a full 6 weapon team? whats your club look like?

Good questions. We have about 15-20 consistent fencers in the club on a yearly basis. No sabre. Usually only a handful of women. So that already takes us to a 2 weapon team. About 4-5 of the students fence at USFA events in the region, but I typically have to push them pretty hard to make that step. The majority are recreational fencers. Like most college students, ours have a lot on their plates and fencing is one of many activities. Other schools in the area are in a similar situation. Since I'm a faculty member, there is some consistency year to year, but other places without a good faculty/staff advisor flounder when student leadership graduates or loses interest. There are a variety of newer folks taking over the advising/instructor roles of clubs in the area, so I'm hopeful that things are looking up. I suspect that what will start to happen is that we schedule some meets, see how it goes, whether it raises interest, etc., and then work towards some more formal structure. We can always make up a name and some rules for a competition without having to have a formal league. Of course, were there student leadership that really pushed either a league or the USACFC, I'd be up for it more quickly.

Tomas

schlager7 · 08-28-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

The Southwest Intercollegiate Fencing Association is coming back together after some time in official limbo.

Here is a link to the website: http://home.austin.rr.com/swifa/

Here is a link to the discussion thread where the current bylaws were hammered out:
http://campechesteel.proboards15.com...ead=1141629335

I would endorse visitiing the SWIFA page and the discussion thread linked in kd5mdk's post. Some of the folks involved have been through a couple of incarnations of SWIFA and may be able to advise against some problems they have encountered. (They are also a freindly bunch).