Paying Coaches - Retainer?

[QTPie]

Hi

Do any of you guys pay your coach on a "retainer" basis (i.e. fixed $rate per month/year) rather than on an hourly (or whatever) basis? If you do, how much do you pay (assuming it isn't rude to ask...) and what sort of things do you expect for the retainer?

My new coach is strongly suggesting we go along this retainer route, but it is all new to me...

Later
QT

[RITFencing]

When I was getting lessons from Jamey Odom it was 25 for a 20-30 minute lesson and 50/month for club membership. There were no group classes other than stuff for young kids.

At RFC, there's a yearly membership fee and a per month class fee, both of which depend upon which program a student is in (beginner, adult, intermediate, pre elite, elite) and at intermediate and above, a certain number of private lessons per week are included in the cost. Additional lessons (or any lessons at all for beginner and adult classes) are 25/per.

[Peach]

We used to pay per lesson as we went, but now we buy and pay in advance for "packs" of lessons at a time, kind of like buying a pack of trainer sessions at the health club. Rates vary depending on the level of the coach.

[IHateMrPotatohead]

Everything in our club is month to month. You pay your monthly dues based on how many and what level of lessons you want to take. There is no membership fee.

[QTPie]

Hi Guys

I think what I am talking about is slightly different.

My coach (who is seperate from my club) wants to charge a flat monthly $rate/fee REGARDLESS of how many lessons I have. So if the coach goes on holiday (or I go on holiday) or the coach is ill (or I'm ill), the coach would still charge the same amount.

Anybody out there pay like this?

QT

[Mr Epee]

Hi Guys

I think what I am talking about is slightly different.

My coach (who is seperate from my club) wants to charge a flat monthly $rate/fee REGARDLESS of how many lessons I have. So if the coach goes on holiday (or I go on holiday) or the coach is ill (or I'm ill), the coach would still charge the same amount.

Anybody out there pay like this?

QT

Seems fine, but just make sure that you have a written contract, so that both understand clearly the expectations, extent and duration of your relationship.

[Sciurus-Rex]

My coach (who is seperate from my club) wants to charge a flat monthly $rate/fee REGARDLESS of how many lessons I have. So if the coach goes on holiday (or I go on holiday) or the coach is ill (or I'm ill), the coach would still charge the same amount.

Ah. So the implication is that he's either working to your benefit even when you can't see it or he's prepped and ready to step in at a moment's notice.

This is appropriate for those coaches who have a yearlong periodization plan, for example, in which an athlete might work on strength training early in the season (which doesn't necessarily require much of a coach's oversight), then plyometrics (more oversight) and footwork, followed by technique refinement near the climax of the season (more private lessons) and actual strip coaching at events.

The idea, though, is that you're contracting for the whole package or process, and not just dashing to the convenience store for random bits of wisdom when you've got the fencing munchies. That's fine. Just make sure you're very clear about what you're paying for -- it's YOUR repsonsibility to make best use of your coach's instruction and planning; it's HIS responsibility to follow through to the end and be aware of your needs, even when he doesn't feel like it.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Hi Guys

I think what I am talking about is slightly different.

My coach (who is seperate from my club) wants to charge a flat monthly $rate/fee REGARDLESS of how many lessons I have. So if the coach goes on holiday (or I go on holiday) or the coach is ill (or I'm ill), the coach would still charge the same amount.

Anybody out there pay like this?

QT

I know some coaches who have a set-up like this.

What you might want to ask is "why?".

Unless you can be guaranteed enough lessons per month to make it worth paying the price, I would not agree to pay a retainer of any sort.

[Allen Evans]

My coach (who is seperate from my club) wants to charge a flat monthly $rate/fee REGARDLESS of how many lessons I have. So if the coach goes on holiday (or I go on holiday) or the coach is ill (or I'm ill), the coach would still charge the same amount.

Some coaches set up this arrangment when students are not very good about making lessons. Quite a few years ago, I had a student that was constantly making appointments for lessons, and then breaking the appointment. I spent two out of every four lessons standing around club because the student cancelled fifteen minutes before they were supposed to be at their lesson. I instituted a flat fee, so I got paid whether the student showed or not (the student quit soon after). If the coach in question does a lot of "outside contracting", they might be trying to avoid this situation.

Every thread discussing coaching on this forum mentions communication between the coach and the student. That not only includes communication about fencing, but about business as well. If you're not regular about making lessons, the coach might be sending you a hint. If the coach isn't regular about making lessons, you might send him or her a message and refuse the arrangement.

DFP wonders why the coach is doing this. It's a good question to ask.

Allen

[mifencer]

I totally agree with Sciurius-Rex and Allen Evens. If you trust this guy to be your coach, and if you think he can help you, pay him. Don't go cheap on quality. Unless you're a recreational fencer, you're doing this because you want to attain a certain level, then don't be penny wise, pound (dollar) foolish.

[penguin_2000]

it's a bit different, but seems fine to me. it is easier to budget your monthly expenditures when you know ahead of time how much is going in and out. my club charges yearly fees for membership (though you can pay month-by-month), regardless of whether you go on summer vacation/winter vacation/busy from job/ etc. You, as well as your coach, would have to be really committed to the relationship, but it could work.

[oso97]

Unless you can be guaranteed enough lessons per month to make it worth paying the price, I would not agree to pay a retainer of any sort.

But, there are different, and highly effective coaching setups than the traditional one-on-one lesson utilized exclusively, regardless of how popular it is. Often, in fact, these other arrangements take very different forms. Such as:

This is appropriate for those coaches who have a yearlong periodization plan, for example, in which an athlete might work on strength training early in the season (which doesn't necessarily require much of a coach's oversight), then plyometrics (more oversight) and footwork, followed by technique refinement near the climax of the season (more private lessons) and actual strip coaching at events.

In fact, if you were to talk to the best coaches producing serious competitors, you will find that this is the model that they personally ascribe to and run their salle's accordingly. Periodization is an extremely powerful and effective methodology, as it allows an athlete to have a program tailored to their exact specific needs, by an attentive coach, who guides their progress over the course of the year and over the course of several years. And Sciurus-Rex describes very well one model that a lot of coaches follow, with variations. For example, in my club, we're getting ready to start a training and conditioning cycle that will extend through the fall. It will also have a heavy footwork component, starting with basic footwork and working up to advanced techniques and tactics. Lots of group work, and very little one-on-one stuff - its more effective than working with everyone individually, as what they need is lots and lots of repetition. Yes, there will be some taking aside of people at different moments, but this is the time in the cycle when individual lessons are neither appropriate or really helpful. Also, not a lot of bouting going on in this time, unless people have extra energy left over after the workouts. Tournaments during this time are mainly "for fun" and pursued as an opportunity to work on skills.

Later on, in the spring, we'll move on to technique and drill (and while pulling back a bit on the strength and conditioning, still keeping it going). Again, a lot of group work, and paired drills. Starting to bring in more individual work, mainly focusing on error correction and technical excellence. A bit more bouting as well, and with emphasis on training bouts to work on specific actions. Similarly tournaments are times to work on skills and have fun.

Then, as we move into the tactical and highly competitive part of the season. Lots of indivdial lessons (possibly to include several a week), where working on tactical ideas and concepts forms the main focus. Lots of training bouts too, and also competitive bouts in house. Tournaments are attended with the achieving particular goals, with the intent of peak performance happening at the appropriate time.

And of course, you've got to consider the off-season. Relax, have fun, let the body recover.

For my students, they pay the same rate, weather in the training cycle or the competitive cycle. And they realize that it all balances out.