Ratings/Tournaments... Canada introduces Smart Cards to seed/register for tournaments

[misha]

While we are discussng several proposals for USFA...

Looks like Canadian Fencing Federation is introducing a lot of changes into their system
http://www.fencing.ca/president_message_20060717.htm

Including Smart Cards as a way to register/seed tournaments

scroll to pages 4 & 5:

http://www.fencing.ca/downloads/2006...cument_eng.pdf


.

[downunder]

Interesting.

Not entirely sure how much more useful it is than a database and ticking names off a page....

[Supermom]

Originally Posted by misha

While we are discussng several proposals for USFA...

Looks like Canadian Fencing Federation is introducing a lot of changes into their system
http://www.fencing.ca/president_message_20060717.htm

Including Smart Cards as a way to register/seed tournaments

scroll to pages 4 & 5:

http://www.fencing.ca/downloads/2006...cument_eng.pdf


.

Way to use modern technology! Americans are not always aware that they are a little behind the times in some ways where technology for the masses is concerned ... in addition to Smart Cards, Canadians also have access to Smart Cars!

[reawl]

Meanwhile, back in the USofA... "Look forward to new 'washable' membership cards"

wooooooo

Anyone else want to move North and change their citizenship?

[Supermom]

Originally Posted by reawl

Meanwhile, back in the USofA... "Look forward to new 'washable' membership cards"

wooooooo

Anyone else want to move North and change their citizenship?

I don't have to change mine

[KD5MDK]

Usually that sentiment is not generated by sports NGBs.

[Supermom]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Usually that sentiment is not generated by sports NGBs.

You lost me. But then, I'm an old lady.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Supermom

You lost me. But then, I'm an old lady.

Anyone else want to move North and change their citizenship?

Usually when people talk about wanting to move to Canada, it's over a political (or cultural) issue, not sports.

What do people think of the new competition format? It looks to me like there's going to be a LOT of fencing for the top fencers.

Senior and Junior format:
Round of pools - 20 to 30% eliminated - top 4 seeds promoted directly to super-pools.
DE table to round of 16
DE table of 16 with repechage to 12 athletes
2 super-pools of 8 (4 + 12)
Super-pool results ranked 1 to 16 and top 8 seeded into a final table of 8.

[Sciurus-Rex]

Those wacky Canadians! Don't they realize they could be using their funds for something more useful than upgrades and change for change's sake? I'll bet their old systems still work just fine.

[samh]

This format gives too much weight to how well fencers perform in pools in two big ways: The people who are top 4 after the first round of pools get a huge break in how much they have to fence and then eliminating 50% from the super-pools means that a lot of people could be cut if they have a difficult pool.

[KD5MDK]

How likely are you thinking it will be that one super-pool will be much more difficult than another? I mean, it's the L16 of an elite event.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by samh

This format gives too much weight to how well fencers perform in pools in two big ways: The people who are top 4 after the first round of pools get a huge break in how much they have to fence and then eliminating 50% from the super-pools means that a lot of people could be cut if they have a difficult pool.

There's no such thing as a non-difficult super-pool, so I don't think having a "difficult pool" puts anybody at a disadvantage there ... though the top four, after having a sizable break, are really going to have to be able to shift right back into top gear since a slow start to the super-pool could really end their day.

[danarielle]

A lot of additional changes as well:

1. Smart Cards will be used at all CFF sanctioned competitions. There use should, in theory, speed up the competition day registration process, and permit instantaneous updating of national rankings literally on the day of the competitions whether national, regional or provincial -- but lets assume that there may be some growing pains. Canada already uses on-line registration for its National and Selection competition events, and has same day "live" results (detailed pool results and DE results) for these events.

2. New algorithm to calculate points for competitions. Not certain what the impact will be (but see Point # 4 below).

3. Closing of the "Canadian Selection Competitions" and Nationals after this year, Only the stronger Canadian fencers (the precise number of qualifying fencers will vary for Cadet, Junior and Senior fencers; and see Point # 4 below) will qualify to fence. Until now, Americans could compete in the CSCs, although relatively few did.

4. Qualifying for Nationals and CSCs (as well as seeding in those competitions) will be based on the fencers' prior year's results (i.e. points) in CFF sanctioned provincial and regional competitions -- which can work hardship on fencers from weaker provinces/regions and increases costs to participants. The intent is to create an incentive to fence at provincial/regional level competitions, as well as to produce "elite" National level competitions.

Should be an interesting year.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by danarielle

3. Closing of the "Canadian Selection Competitions" and Nationals after this year, Only the stronger Canadian fencers (the precise number of qualifying fencers will vary for Cadet, Junior and Senior fencers; and see Point # 4 below) will qualify to fence. Until now, Americans could compete in the CSCs, although relatively few did.

4. Qualifying for Nationals and CSCs (as well as seeding in those competitions) will be based on the fencers' prior year's results (i.e. points) in CFF sanctioned provincial and regional competitions -- which can work hardship on fencers from weaker provinces/regions and increases costs to participants. The intent is to create an incentive to fence at provincial/regional level competitions, as well as to produce "elite" National level competitions.

Should be an interesting year.

These last two points are irking me ... I've moved abroad, and was planning to come back to fence at Nationals (and perhaps an occasional CSC) ... but not having competed in Canada during the 2006 calendar year (thus far) might have dropped my ranking too low to do so -- and flying from the UK to Canada is a bit of a jump for a smaller competition.

Of course, every time they make changes they introduce qualification criteria for Nationals. So far, they've yet to actually implement them ...

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by samh

This format gives too much weight to how well fencers perform in pools in two big ways: The people who are top 4 after the first round of pools get a huge break in how much they have to fence and then eliminating 50% from the super-pools means that a lot of people could be cut if they have a difficult pool.

Reading the supporting documents, it's clear that the CFF decided the the top fencers were just cruising until after the super-pools under the previous format (no bye to the super-pool, top 6 up from each super-pool). The changes are specifically designed to add incentives to fencing well earlier in the competition.

-B

[Sabresque]

It seems like they're becoming the NCAA =P

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Sabresque

It seems like they're becoming the NCAA =P

*quisical look*

-B

[jBirch]

We got a preview of this a while ago and while some of the changes are positive, not all are.

1) Smart Cards. These, in particular, are contentious for a number of reasons. First, they're expensive ($2-5/ card) and fencers WILL lose them. What then? Plus, the equipment to read them is not cheap either. Which competitions will use them and who incurrs the support costs? Second, there's not much gained by using them. Sure, you can swipe in and out of tournament venues...but you could do the same with the much cheaper barcode technology. The only real reason to keep them around is that they carry the fencer's information on them...which makes for a privacy issue if they ever get stolen. Again, barcodes indexed to a central database attain the same benefit, for pennies.

2) The changes to points. They are switching membership prices so that they can register a lot more fencers as being fencers in Canada. Couple this with no selection circuit and the old A/B/C system and you have a heavy concentration in the two major fencing areas and a monopoly on those ratings for years to come.

That said, this is the most action in a positive direction that the CFF has done in a long while. It will be interesting to see where we end up at the end of the year.

James.

[samh]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Reading the supporting documents, it's clear that the CFF decided the the top fencers were just cruising until after the super-pools under the previous format (no bye to the super-pool, top 6 up from each super-pool). The changes are specifically designed to add incentives to fencing well earlier in the competition.

-B

I understand and agree with this sentiment, however oftentimes one super pool is significantly stronger than the other and with 50% being cut I think that the results won't be as representative of how good the fencers are.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by samh

I understand and agree with this sentiment, however oftentimes one super pool is significantly stronger than the other and with 50% being cut I think that the results won't be as representative of how good the fencers are.

When does this happen? Seriously ... the occasional "weak fencer" or two who sneak into the super pools at a CSC is having a great day, and doesn't often reduce the quality of the pool.