topleft topright

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    Senior Member Array
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    748

    Ratings/Tournaments... Canada introduces Smart Cards to seed/register for tournaments

    While we are discussng several proposals for USFA...

    Looks like Canadian Fencing Federation is introducing a lot of changes into their system
    http://www.fencing.ca/president_message_20060717.htm

    Including Smart Cards as a way to register/seed tournaments

    scroll to pages 4 & 5:

    http://www.fencing.ca/downloads/2006...cument_eng.pdf


    .

  2. #2
    Fencing Expert Array downunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,458
    Interesting.

    Not entirely sure how much more useful it is than a database and ticking names off a page....

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Supermom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    116

    Yay, Canada!

    Quote Originally Posted by misha
    While we are discussng several proposals for USFA...

    Looks like Canadian Fencing Federation is introducing a lot of changes into their system
    http://www.fencing.ca/president_message_20060717.htm

    Including Smart Cards as a way to register/seed tournaments

    scroll to pages 4 & 5:

    http://www.fencing.ca/downloads/2006...cument_eng.pdf


    .
    Way to use modern technology! Americans are not always aware that they are a little behind the times in some ways where technology for the masses is concerned ... in addition to Smart Cards, Canadians also have access to Smart Cars!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array reawl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    295
    Meanwhile, back in the USofA... "Look forward to new 'washable' membership cards"

    wooooooo

    Anyone else want to move North and change their citizenship?
    You have two opponents, the one standing on the strip, and the one standing to the side of it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Supermom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by reawl
    Meanwhile, back in the USofA... "Look forward to new 'washable' membership cards"

    wooooooo

    Anyone else want to move North and change their citizenship?
    I don't have to change mine

  6. #6
    Moderator Array
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    11,970
    Usually that sentiment is not generated by sports NGBs.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Supermom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by KD5MDK
    Usually that sentiment is not generated by sports NGBs.
    You lost me. But then, I'm an old lady.

  8. #8
    Moderator Array
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    11,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Supermom
    You lost me. But then, I'm an old lady.
    Anyone else want to move North and change their citizenship?
    Usually when people talk about wanting to move to Canada, it's over a political (or cultural) issue, not sports.

    What do people think of the new competition format? It looks to me like there's going to be a LOT of fencing for the top fencers.
    Senior and Junior format:
    Round of pools - 20 to 30% eliminated - top 4 seeds promoted directly to super-pools.
    DE table to round of 16
    DE table of 16 with repechage to 12 athletes
    2 super-pools of 8 (4 + 12)
    Super-pool results ranked 1 to 16 and top 8 seeded into a final table of 8.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Sciurus-Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,329
    Those wacky Canadians! Don't they realize they could be using their funds for something more useful than upgrades and change for change's sake? I'll bet their old systems still work just fine.
    Last edited by Sciurus-Rex; 08-20-2006 at 09:40 AM.
    "Why do you say this to me, when you know I will kill you for it?" - Zod

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array samh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    223
    Blog Entries
    33
    This format gives too much weight to how well fencers perform in pools in two big ways: The people who are top 4 after the first round of pools get a huge break in how much they have to fence and then eliminating 50% from the super-pools means that a lot of people could be cut if they have a difficult pool.

  11. #11
    Moderator Array
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    11,970
    How likely are you thinking it will be that one super-pool will be much more difficult than another? I mean, it's the L16 of an elite event.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array kalivor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,739
    Quote Originally Posted by samh
    This format gives too much weight to how well fencers perform in pools in two big ways: The people who are top 4 after the first round of pools get a huge break in how much they have to fence and then eliminating 50% from the super-pools means that a lot of people could be cut if they have a difficult pool.
    There's no such thing as a non-difficult super-pool, so I don't think having a "difficult pool" puts anybody at a disadvantage there ... though the top four, after having a sizable break, are really going to have to be able to shift right back into top gear since a slow start to the super-pool could really end their day.

  13. #13
    Just Joined Array
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    16
    A lot of additional changes as well:

    1. Smart Cards will be used at all CFF sanctioned competitions. There use should, in theory, speed up the competition day registration process, and permit instantaneous updating of national rankings literally on the day of the competitions whether national, regional or provincial -- but lets assume that there may be some growing pains. Canada already uses on-line registration for its National and Selection competition events, and has same day "live" results (detailed pool results and DE results) for these events.

    2. New algorithm to calculate points for competitions. Not certain what the impact will be (but see Point # 4 below).

    3. Closing of the "Canadian Selection Competitions" and Nationals after this year, Only the stronger Canadian fencers (the precise number of qualifying fencers will vary for Cadet, Junior and Senior fencers; and see Point # 4 below) will qualify to fence. Until now, Americans could compete in the CSCs, although relatively few did.

    4. Qualifying for Nationals and CSCs (as well as seeding in those competitions) will be based on the fencers' prior year's results (i.e. points) in CFF sanctioned provincial and regional competitions -- which can work hardship on fencers from weaker provinces/regions and increases costs to participants. The intent is to create an incentive to fence at provincial/regional level competitions, as well as to produce "elite" National level competitions.

    Should be an interesting year.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array kalivor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,739
    Quote Originally Posted by danarielle
    3. Closing of the "Canadian Selection Competitions" and Nationals after this year, Only the stronger Canadian fencers (the precise number of qualifying fencers will vary for Cadet, Junior and Senior fencers; and see Point # 4 below) will qualify to fence. Until now, Americans could compete in the CSCs, although relatively few did.

    4. Qualifying for Nationals and CSCs (as well as seeding in those competitions) will be based on the fencers' prior year's results (i.e. points) in CFF sanctioned provincial and regional competitions -- which can work hardship on fencers from weaker provinces/regions and increases costs to participants. The intent is to create an incentive to fence at provincial/regional level competitions, as well as to produce "elite" National level competitions.

    Should be an interesting year.
    These last two points are irking me ... I've moved abroad, and was planning to come back to fence at Nationals (and perhaps an occasional CSC) ... but not having competed in Canada during the 2006 calendar year (thus far) might have dropped my ranking too low to do so -- and flying from the UK to Canada is a bit of a jump for a smaller competition.

    Of course, every time they make changes they introduce qualification criteria for Nationals. So far, they've yet to actually implement them ...

  15. #15
    Fencing Expert Array oiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Pennsauken, NJ
    Posts
    11,810
    Quote Originally Posted by samh
    This format gives too much weight to how well fencers perform in pools in two big ways: The people who are top 4 after the first round of pools get a huge break in how much they have to fence and then eliminating 50% from the super-pools means that a lot of people could be cut if they have a difficult pool.
    Reading the supporting documents, it's clear that the CFF decided the the top fencers were just cruising until after the super-pools under the previous format (no bye to the super-pool, top 6 up from each super-pool). The changes are specifically designed to add incentives to fencing well earlier in the competition.

    -B
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

  16. #16
    Senior Member Array Sabresque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    935
    It seems like they're becoming the NCAA =P
    -Sabresque

    "Those whippernsapper Be-Bop Bohemians!"

  17. #17
    Fencing Expert Array oiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Pennsauken, NJ
    Posts
    11,810
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabresque
    It seems like they're becoming the NCAA =P
    *quisical look*

    -B
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

  18. #18
    Senior Member Array jBirch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Carstairs, AB, Canada
    Posts
    3,467
    We got a preview of this a while ago and while some of the changes are positive, not all are.

    1) Smart Cards. These, in particular, are contentious for a number of reasons. First, they're expensive ($2-5/ card) and fencers WILL lose them. What then? Plus, the equipment to read them is not cheap either. Which competitions will use them and who incurrs the support costs? Second, there's not much gained by using them. Sure, you can swipe in and out of tournament venues...but you could do the same with the much cheaper barcode technology. The only real reason to keep them around is that they carry the fencer's information on them...which makes for a privacy issue if they ever get stolen. Again, barcodes indexed to a central database attain the same benefit, for pennies.

    2) The changes to points. They are switching membership prices so that they can register a lot more fencers as being fencers in Canada. Couple this with no selection circuit and the old A/B/C system and you have a heavy concentration in the two major fencing areas and a monopoly on those ratings for years to come.

    That said, this is the most action in a positive direction that the CFF has done in a long while. It will be interesting to see where we end up at the end of the year.

    James.
    If it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Array samh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    223
    Blog Entries
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by oiuyt
    Reading the supporting documents, it's clear that the CFF decided the the top fencers were just cruising until after the super-pools under the previous format (no bye to the super-pool, top 6 up from each super-pool). The changes are specifically designed to add incentives to fencing well earlier in the competition.

    -B
    I understand and agree with this sentiment, however oftentimes one super pool is significantly stronger than the other and with 50% being cut I think that the results won't be as representative of how good the fencers are.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Array kalivor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,739
    Quote Originally Posted by samh
    I understand and agree with this sentiment, however oftentimes one super pool is significantly stronger than the other and with 50% being cut I think that the results won't be as representative of how good the fencers are.
    When does this happen? Seriously ... the occasional "weak fencer" or two who sneak into the super pools at a CSC is having a great day, and doesn't often reduce the quality of the pool.

Similar Threads

  1. Getting ready for tournaments
    By Maester in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-09-2006, 10:15 PM
  2. two-day or one-day tournaments?
    By fluidfencer in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-02-2005, 01:41 PM
  3. What do you eat after tournaments?
    By D+F+P=Hadouken! in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 11-11-2004, 02:38 PM
  4. dry tournaments
    By KC in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-04-2003, 01:23 AM
  5. Foil Tournaments in NYC
    By E-fencer in forum Discussion Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-04-2002, 05:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30