Should I use a smaller grip?

[Melancholy]

Hi there,

I've browsed numerous message threads on these forums regarding this topic and found some answers, but I am still curious as to how small a grip I can use in regards to the cons. My teacher started me on a very small pistol grip (cut down small grip of some sort on his spare blade) and I've found that I've really taken to that feel since it puts my index finger flush against the guard and gives me more control using my fingers.

However, in bouting I have been using a medium Visconti grip and while it is comfortable in my hands, I find myself missing some of the responsiveness using a considerably smaller grip.

My question is if I switched to a smaller grip, would I be losing any advantage in terms of strength during moves such as parries? As long as it is comfortable for me, is there any disadvantage to using as small a grip as possible?

Thanks very much!

[OROD]

You should use the grip that feels most comfortable. Using one that's too small is not a good idea. I'd say, use the medium Visconti grip, but have someone cut the front part to the right length. They can do so and cut the little groove for the wire, I've done it before. Then you have the best of both worlds.

Hope that helps.

.

[Phaeton]

You need to choose and consistantly use the same grip in practice as in bouting. Which you choose is fully up to you. As a sabre fencer who has seen a number of injuries to the thumb because of placement too close the guard, I am very reluctant about putting anything up against the guard at alll.

In my limited experience with nonfrench grips I find that a smaller sized grip can cause somone to completely tense up the hand. The larger grip won't hurt your fencing, and you should probably go with whatever is most comfortable because you'll be using it. Whatever responsiveness you lack now will be adjusted for and made up later, and eventually grip choice doens't really matter all that much unless you're deciding to post on a french grip.

[Purple Fencer]

Melancholy,

Do you take classes at Fortune Fencing? Amy and Geoff should have no problem adjusting the grip for you as OROD suggested....

If you want, I can make the adjustment for you. Just drop me a line if you're going to be near Burbank in the evening any time.

[Melancholy]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Melancholy,

Do you take classes at Fortune Fencing? Amy and Geoff should have no problem adjusting the grip for you as OROD suggested....

If you want, I can make the adjustment for you. Just drop me a line if you're going to be near Burbank in the evening any time.

Hi Purple Fencer,
Yes, I have taken some privates at Fortune Fencing with Derek Cotton actually. I recall he had me try a foil with a relatively small grip one time to get used to working with my fingers more and since that point, I think I've felt like I had better point control with that than the medium grips I have been using since I got my own foils. (Derek is a great teacher btw)

Due to my schedule, I haven't had a chance to return to the gym since I bought my new gear, but I have done some bouting since then. (Only been fencing for about a month and a half) Does Fortune Fencing have tools for adjustment on site? I am coming from Pomona which is about 25 minutes east of Pasadena so Burbank is a bit of a hike unless you aren't much farther from Pasadena. I def. appreciate the advice and offer though.

[purpzeyFCLI]

My roommate has been fencing foil for 7 years, he started out using a medium sized belgian. However, what he and his coach found was that he was "palming" the entire grip and as a result had a lack of control. It also meant he was having to really grab it very hard, which also decreases control.

He switched to a small belgian (a size that completely cramps my hand even when I look at it). He said it was a little tough at first but now he won't have a weapon without one.

Point is, choose a grip that suits you for both comfort and fencing. Choosing a smaller grip shouldn't really affect your power to greatly, but it could cramp your hand. By the same token, a larger grip can cause you to have less finger control(which is my roommates issue).

The pros and cons of any grip vary from person to person so to predict how it would affect you specifically is tough. Most important thing is comfort, can't have a cramping hand. Beyond that, if you want to change it until find what works best, that probably can't hurt as long as you pick one eventually and stick with it.

[keropie]

Note also that medium and small visconti grips are differently shaped. It's not just the length. I couldn't use even a cut down medium visconti comfortably (I use a small, in case it isn't obvious). So if you find a grip that you like, I'd say go with it.

Edit: Oh, and no one has ever told me that I like 'authority' with the blade, even with the small grip and the finger only approach. Ask Craig, he and I fenced last week (a freak coincidence, that), or Needle, he and I have fenced epee. People are more likely to call me a brute than anything else

[erooMynohtnA]

I find that a smaller grip gives more control in a lesson or drill situation, but you can lose your grip much more easily and have less power when doing strong blade actions during a bout.

Just like everyone else, I'll say do whatever feels best for your hand. Just keep it consistent.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Melancholy

Hi Purple Fencer,
Yes, I have taken some privates at Fortune Fencing with Derek Cotton actually. I recall he had me try a foil with a relatively small grip one time to get used to working with my fingers more and since that point, I think I've felt like I had better point control with that than the medium grips I have been using since I got my own foils. (Derek is a great teacher btw)

Due to my schedule, I haven't had a chance to return to the gym since I bought my new gear, but I have done some bouting since then. (Only been fencing for about a month and a half) Does Fortune Fencing have tools for adjustment on site? I am coming from Pomona which is about 25 minutes east of Pasadena so Burbank is a bit of a hike unless you aren't much farther from Pasadena. I def. appreciate the advice and offer though.

I don;t know about armoring facilities...I haven't been to the new site...but Derek knows how to alter the nose...he's the one who showed the trick to me in the first place!

[OROD]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

I don;t know about armoring facilities...but Derek knows how to alter the nose...he's the one who showed the trick to me in the first place!

By punshing you in the face??

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by OROD

By punshing you in the face??

Careful, or I'll relate in excruciating detail your first NAC experience!!

[OROD]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Careful, or I'll relate in excruciating detail your first NAC experience!!

Oh ya huh wha... uhmm sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about! You must have me confused with another OROD.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by keropie

Note also that medium and small visconti grips are differently shaped. It's not just the length. I couldn't use even a cut down medium visconti comfortably (I use a small, in case it isn't obvious).

Same here. I used a medium visconti or a cut down belgian for years. When I bought some new weapons, I accidentally got a small visconti. That's when I realized that I had been using too large of a grip for years. I ended up switching all of my weapons over to the small visconti.

And, yeah, keropie certainly doesn't lack "strength" during his blade actions.

Mostly, I'd say to pick whichever grip feels most comfortable and seems to fit your hand well. Try to make sure all of your weapons have that same grip. Fence with it for at least a few months. Maybe even a year or so. Then, if you still want to experiment, you can put a different grip on one weapon fence with that one exclusively at practice for a while. Really, if you're using the "wrong" grip, you'll realize it pretty quickly once you switch to the "right" grip. If you can't tell much of a difference or if the new grip doesn't feel good after several practices, go back to your original grip and don't worry too much about it.

My favorite comment on grips comes from Khinoy, I think, in his translation of Vass's epee book. "Students should be encouraged to experiment with grips...from the beginning....At the same time...no grip, by itself, will magically impart expertise....The time spend discussing and searching for the ideal grip is a manifestation of the fencer's enthusiasm for the sport. Nevertheless, in most cases it would be better spent practicing technique with whatever grip is available."