Parent Behavior

[Mo]

At Summer Nationals I was hanging around with a good friend of mine. She has a daughter who is 10.

There were parents from our club (Same club as friend) who would walk up to her kid and try to psych her out. They would ask her things like, "Did your mom sew padding into your jacket arm? If not the girl are you going to fence will hurt you because she hits really hard."

I could NOT believe it. Apparently this happens all the time. I saw it going on with other parents too. If parents want to psych out other parents that is one thing, but I say leave the kids alone. I forgot what it was like. My kids are older.

What would you say if someone was messing with your kid or team mate?

The Momster

[JayhawkPawn]

If someone was trying to psych out my ten year old? Stand back, pull up a random person and loudly remark "It's amazing how little faith parents have in their children, trying to attack ten year olds before their bout." And then wave to the offender and smile.

That's just me, and I'm a meanie.

[fencerwallet]

I actually found that 95% of fencing parents are very cordial, positively supportive and knowledgable with a sense of comraderie. However, during Nationals my son early on was watching his pool opponents when one parent, recognizing my son's name on the back of his lame, kinda was talking smack out loud for my son to hear. My son just looked at me and we both shrugged. Before he fenced this guy's son, my son approached me and whispered, "dad, watch this" and proceeded on to win his bout 5-0. Moral: sometimes kids can take care of themselves.

[the reluctant fencer]

haha. You can't argue with results.

[KD5MDK]

It sounds to me like there are issues at your club if the parents of clubmates are trying to hurt other member's performance.

[RITFencing]

Fencerwallet: Your kid is awesome.

KD5MDK: Agreed, sounds like there's some competitive issues going on at that club that aren't entirely healthy.

Mo: That's just sad. I don't know why some parents get like that. Are they trying to vicariously live through their kid's victories? Do they think this will help their kids out? Do they think that wins at that level (Y10?! It's just about which kids is developing quicker.) will help their kid later on? Are they just obsessive? Are they just jerks?

As a ref, if that were on my strip, the offending parent would probably be carded for an offense against sportsmanship, or disturbing order on the strip. I know it doesn't sound disturbing, but it it's disgusting enough to bring me over for a reprimand, it disturbed order. I'd also be very tempted to smack the offender, though those urges normally only really come up when I see a parent or coach reducing their kid to tears by yelling.

[daveappr]

Originally Posted by Mo

At Summer Nationals I was hanging around with a good friend of mine. She has a daughter who is 10.

There were parents from our club (Same club as friend) who would walk up to her kid and try to psych her out. They would ask her things like, "Did your mom sew padding into your jacket arm? If not the girl are you going to fence will hurt you because she hits really hard."

I could NOT believe it. Apparently this happens all the time. I saw it going on with other parents too. If parents want to psych out other parents that is one thing, but I say leave the kids alone. I forgot what it was like. My kids are older.

What would you say if someone was messing with your kid or team mate?

The Momster

I detest this kind of behavior from parents. It was a HUGE turn off when my oldest (now 17) played soccer, and I'm seeing more of this at tournaments. Fencing seemed to be the one place where parents backed off, but no longer. I heard several disparaging remarks at this past summer nat'ls myself, including the parent berating his daughter after 2 pool losses in Y-10 girls epee. Lazy/ why did we even come- my wife and I then started talking rather loudly and in the parents direction about letting kids be kids, whack job parents and why don't those kind of people stick to soccer. Yeah, you paid alot of money to be there- so what- so did everyone else, including me and my kid only won one pool bout- did I freak, nah, she's 10 with less than 18 months experience; was her first nat'ls experience a good one- yeah, actually, and she realized that fencing is much bigger than our small club and division. Oh, and for the coach who told his Y-10 fencer she's lazy and will never amount to anything and he'd never be by her strip again- Good riddance- I hope he stays far away from all kids. The days of berating a young athlete are long gone- and if parents had any sense, they'd find a new club- Sorry for the rant but just my five cents

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by Mo

At Summer Nationals I was hanging around with a good friend of mine. She has a daughter who is 10.

There were parents from our club (Same club as friend) who would walk up to her kid and try to psych her out. They would ask her things like, "Did your mom sew padding into your jacket arm? If not the girl are you going to fence will hurt you because she hits really hard."

I could NOT believe it. Apparently this happens all the time. I saw it going on with other parents too. If parents want to psych out other parents that is one thing, but I say leave the kids alone. I forgot what it was like. My kids are older.

Are you sure that it was malicious? Parents often get nervous at fencing tournaments. They're often more nervous than the fencers. That makes them babble. They often want to be involved with what's going on, but they don't know how to be involved appropriately. That's especially true for new fencing parents.

I've seen many parents psych their own kids out. The fencer comes off the strip after fencing poorly and losing a bout. The dad who doesn't know much about fencing asks, "I guess you aren't fencing very well today, huh?" Um...not the kind of question an athlete needs as he trieds to get his head together.

Or, same situation, and the fencer's mother is clearly agitated. She's seen bad fencing days before, and she really wants to help make it better. So, she starts trying to figure out how to help by asking, "Do you need me to get you anything? I could go to the cafe and get you some juice. Are you sure you're okay? You don't need anything? " Again, the fencer probably needs some quiet time to get her head together, or she needs to talk to her coach and get her focused on the fencing action.

When the kids are young enough, the parents are used to walking up and talking to all of their kids' friends. Parents of 14 - 18 year olds do it much less, normally because the kids have trained the parents not to do that. So, parents of young kids are just as likely to say something inappropriate to the competitors as they are to say it to their own kids.

If you're all from the same club, and you're a more experienced fencing parent, maybe you could get together with your club and put together a parents' meeting. Talk about your emotions as a parent of a fencer. Then talk about what that tends to lead to (good and bad). Maybe give examples of inappropriate behavior and talk about how to change those same impulses and that energy into something appropriate. Instead of pestering your kid with questions, use the impulse to help to get one of the coaches over to your strip. Recognize when you fencer needs some space, and intercept other parents and teammates from going up to your kid to talk. That kind of thing.

If you really have parents are deliberately trying to psych out 10 year kids...um, well, that's pretty sad. The other parents can be non-confrontational and simply intercept them and make small talk. Or they can be more direct and ask that all other parents not talk to their kids at all during competitions. Whether you're saying something to the other parents or just trying to manage the situtation, I would avoid ascribing motives to other parents' behaviors. Just focus on the behavior itself and how you want it to change. At some venues, you can cut the fencer off from the meddling of other parents (and from your "support") by having them stay in the competitor area where only fencers and coaches are permitted. Of course, that's not possible at many venues.

[prototoast]

How exactly does a 10 year old girl hit really hard?

[Allen Evans]

Fencing is as likely as any sport to have parents who never competed at anything, at any level. Suddenly their kids are fencing at the US National Championships, and the parents don't have any idea what that means, but....US Nationals....that must be important.

So they get nervous and say stupid stuff.

DCFC ran a parents clinic a few years ago that had a few coaches, and two of the more experianced parents giving a little talk about what fencing is, how athletes react under the stress of being at a compeition, ways to be helpful, and a lot of answering of questions. I was suprised that even parents whose kids have been fencing for some time still had some basic questions like: "Should my child eat the morning of a competition?".

I sat on the panel (though I do not coach for DCFC, and never have) and I thought it was a great experiance. The parents seemed to get a lot out of it, and I learned a lot about parents. As a coach, it's easy to get frustrated with parents at times, but I think a little "reaching out" can help a lot on both sides. If you have a big active club, I'd really recommend hosting a parents discussion night once a year.

A

[mlr2fence]

Originally Posted by prototoast

How exactly does a 10 year old girl hit really hard?

Not all 10 yr old girls are petite little gymnast types. I've seen some big 'bruiser' types that obviously were well along the puberty trail. Unfortunately sometimes their sportsmanship and maturity are not equal to their size for they use their size to 'out muscle' their opponent to win.

I agree that sometimes people say things that are well intentioned but come across differently and that could very well be what happened in this case. I will also agree that there are some uber-competitive parents out there and will resort to almost anything so their 'lil darling can win. (believe me, I've seen some of them in action--disgusting--hate to see what the kids turn out to be like as teens/adults with that kind of role model!) Little do they realize how much that kind of behavior reflects sooo negatively on them and their child and actually works against them in the long run. After all, in this case its Y-10 and really has no impact on anything/anyone other than the 10 kids or so in the event!

[sleepyweasle]

Maybe my daughter has just been really lucky, maybe because until recently she has always been kind of an underdog in all her bouts, or maybe because she was just older when she started fencing, but she has NEVER had any bad experiences with parents of other fencers being deliberately nasty or trying to "psyche her out" before a bout. All of the fencing parents we have been personally exposed to have either been encouraging or just don't say anything to her.

Although I admit - she may be an exception (?) - as, after I finished complimenting my daughter's opponent (who had just beaten my daughter in an exciting semifinal DE with excellent fencing at a fairly large regional event) and telling her parents what a great fencer I thought their daughter was, the kid's father turned to me and said, "I have never heard anyone say that after their child lost a bout - you are the nicest fencing parent I have ever met."

As anyone who knows me will attest to the fact that I am hardly the "nicest" person - I just calls it as I sees it (as long as it's complimentary - I would never say "wow - you suck!" to another person) - this encounter leads me to believe that maybe my daughter has just been very lucky so far in meeting nice people.

Which is kinda sad for the rest of the kids and parents involved in fencing if it's true...

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

If a parent talked to a young fencer I was coaching, I would take my youth fencer away from that environment, then go back and talk with the parent. Just tell them that behavior like that is unnacceptable. I would ask them if they wanted me to be talking to their fencer like that.

Fencing is a competitive, rough sport, but mental warfare should be between the fencers, not the parents and the fencers.

[Crazy Horse]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

If a parent talked to a young fencer I was coaching, I would take my youth fencer away from that environment, then go back and talk with the parent. Just tell them that behavior like that is unnacceptable. I would ask them if they wanted me to be talking to their fencer like that.

Fencing is a competitive, rough sport, but mental warfare should be between the fencers, not the parents and the fencers.

When you are fencing Y10 events, don't you find it a conflict to coach fencers you will be fencing against?

[fencerwallet]

[quote=daveappr]I detest this kind of behavior from parents. It was a HUGE turn off when my oldest (now 17) played soccer, and I'm seeing more of this at tournaments. Fencing seemed to be the one place where parents backed off, but no longer.

This is an unfortunate by-product of the growing popularity of the sport. Y10MF at SN this year had 103 fencers. Y10MS had 45 fencers. If you look at the PCC results from 2004, a scant 2 years ago, Y10WS did not even have one participant. 2004 PCC Y12MS had 12 participants, while this year not only did they have 38 but it was a C2 event. More kids, more competition, which is a really good thing for them. However, this also brings in more parents, some of whom refer to their favorite professional sports team as "we", as if they played on the team themselves.

[RITFencing]

Ummm... DFP is a wee bit too old for Y-10.

Maturity level's about right, though.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Crazy Horse

When you are fencing Y10 events, don't you find it a conflict to coach fencers you will be fencing against?

Yeah, its really difficult. I'm glad I've finally found someone who understands me

[Bryn Ralph]

Perhaps we [fencers] overlook the necessity to understand the current human behaviour, either by parents or participants, which appears to be symptomatic of the larger issue in American culture: personal aggrandizement to the exclusion of fellowman. A new paradigm exists regarding attitudes and behaviours we deplore; and, this paradigm is: "Get over it -- Get therapy -- or -- Get out."

I believe that the international community of fencers holds one another to a greater standard than this new paradigm.

[suterces]

I agree that some parents psych their own kids out. I have seen parents trying to help their kids who just lost a bout by suggesting, "Maybe your opponent was doing this and this... Perhaps you should try something different next time... etc. etc." when the parents doesn't really know much about fencing at all. I have seen some parents at NACs that have absolutely no idea how the tournament runs. I've been asked questions like, "How can I find out which strip my kid is fencing on now?"
The way to solve this is all parents must take attend a parents clinic to be allowed inside the NAC venue. Hahaa. (ok just kidding).

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by suterces

I have seen parents trying to help their kids who just lost a bout by suggesting, "Maybe your opponent was doing this and this... Perhaps you should try something different next time... etc. etc." when the parents doesn't really know much about fencing at all.

That's still a damn sight better than *****ing the kid out for getting beat...