Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Peach · 08-16-2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

You'll get a much better reaction if you use proper spelling and grammar, becuase at your current levels it's quite hard to understand what you mean.

And "because" is spelled how?

Inquartata · 08-16-2006, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peach

And "because" is spelled how?

No, it's spelled "because". "How" is spelled "how".

Zilverzmurfen · 08-16-2006, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

You'll get a much better reaction if you use proper spelling and grammar, becuase at your current levels it's quite hard to understand what you mean.

A good thing is he/she is still in school (as per the post). Here's hoping!

fencerwallet · 08-16-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaeton

The fact that everyone does it makes it the right thing to do?

Quick! Shine the Inq signal! We need his latin-name-for-logical-fallacy-orangs. Keep your eyes out for the cormudgeon mobile! Do I hear an amazingly simmilar theme song to that of Bruce Wayne coming on? Perhaps so.

When I'm fencing I find cheering extremely annoying. I can understand team members inside the box (the two other competitors and the one alternate) cheering or offering advice. I also understand the coach giving advice. I think parents cheering can be extremely distracting to a child, and quite frankly most parents find bad times to cheer, such as when the ref is talking. Clapping after a point is alright, cheering during a point is distracting, maliscious or no.

Rocky is right, fencing is a sport. The USFA does encourage spectators at its events, doesn't it? Aren't distractions part of what all athletes in any sport have to deal with? Fans cheer, its the popular sports culture. Golf tournaments years ago used to only have polite applause, but now with Tiger and the subsequent boon of fans you have cheers, chants disrupting play and all sorts of more mainstream sports fan rhetoric. I recently went to a MLB game where fans chanted to Barry Bonds, "Pee in the cup", "Barry sucks" and "Cheater...". Certainly you don't want any malicious comments directed at children, especially by parents. But as a sport becomes popular, you probably can't avoid the rest of what comes with it.

erooMynohtnA · 08-16-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencerwallet

Rocky is right, fencing is a sport. The USFA does encourage spectators at its events, doesn't it? Aren't distractions part of what all athletes in any sport have to deal with? Fans cheer, its the popular sports culture. Golf tournaments years ago used to only have polite applause, but now with Tiger and the subsequent boon of fans you have cheers, chants disrupting play and all sorts of more mainstream sports fan rhetoric. I recently went to a MLB game where fans chanted to Barry Bonds, "Pee in the cup", "Barry sucks" and "Cheater...". Certainly you don't want any malicious comments directed at children, especially by parents. But as a sport becomes popular, you probably can't avoid the rest of what comes with it.

"The fact that everyone does it makes it the right thing to do?

Quick! Shine the Inq signal! We need his latin-name-for-logical-fallacy-orangs. Keep your eyes out for the cormudgeon mobile! Do I hear an amazingly simmilar theme song to that of Bruce Wayne coming on? Perhaps so."

And we're back to where we started, argumentum ad populum. Thanks for the insightful post.

I find cheering extremely irritating and distracting from my own camp. I ask them to be quiet or leave. I could care less what my opponent's people do, because they don't distract me for whatever reason.

Parents should be allowed to cheer on their child, as any fan should be allowed to cheer on their favored competitor. However, there's a time for that: after the halt. A lot of parents don't get that because they don't fence and no one has told them.

chefencer · 08-16-2006, 02:03 PM

Ha!Ha!Ha! Fencing Hooligans! I can't wait! I'm going to have to compose a fencing chant/song to "Rock & Roll Part Deaux" Hey! Hey!

KD5MDK · 08-16-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peach

And "because" is spelled how?

I'll tolerate a comparison of the error rate I make at 4am against their's any day.

Phincer · 08-16-2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'll tolerate a comparison of the error rate I make at 4am against their's any day.

Read over that post again-if you look carefully, you will see this person most likely is NOT a native English speaker and is trying hard to contribute to this forum. Give him/her a break and be a little more welcoming.

sleepyweasle · 08-16-2006, 02:49 PM

I was reading one of the reffing threads and I suddenly remembered that my kid DID have a bad experience with a fencing parent - not while fencing but while reffing. Last year she went through the course, passed the test and became a rated ref. She had fun reffing local events but during her first "official" USFA event, a RYC where she had been invited to ref by one of the organizers, she encountered a very nasty parent. It was during a Y12 boys sabre DE where a fencer's father basically started screaming at her and calling her names after his son lost the bout. It didn't matter that the other ref supervising her AND the losing fencer's coach both told her she had made the correct calls - it really turned her off reffing anything but local events (and, obviously, practices and club self-reffing tournies).

I know refs have to be tough, but this is the sort of thing (an adult male screaming at a 15 year old girl) that might be turning kids off from reffing.

annacattiva · 08-16-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyweasle

I know refs have to be tough, but this is the sort of thing (an adult male screaming at a 15 year old girl) that might be turning kids off from reffing.

I find that cotton in the ears works quite well. Or if you can find really brightly colored earplugs...

KD5MDK- it's "theirs".

Anna

darius · 08-16-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

It was during a Y12 boys sabre DE where a fencer's father basically started screaming at her and calling her names after his son lost the bout.

If the young referee was too intimidated to drop a yellow card, the supervising referee should have done so. That was a moment filled with potential learning moments for all parties!

darius

Peach · 08-16-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'll tolerate a comparison of the error rate I make at 4am against their's any day.

"their's"? Heee hee hee. Possessive pronouns don't take apostrophes. What about at another time of the day? But you get my point. I'll stop now.

KD5MDK · 08-16-2006, 07:30 PM

yr rt

BrisGirl · 08-17-2006, 04:04 AM

Took my son to his first U17 Nationals, and while he was waiting amongst his competitiors for the pool bouts, an elderley woman went up to my son and said ' I can not believe you can get away with wearing that lame - you should be carded for it'

When I returned to him, he was distressed and tugging at his lame, and when I asked what was wrong, and told what had happened while I was not there.
The only way I could rest his mind was to assure him that the lame had passed the weapons check and that was all that mattered.

Not sure if it was her intention to unsettle him, but she did, and advised my son in future if anyone speaks to him in a unfriendly, unsportsman like way, he is to ask for his coach or official to be present before they continue on.

Inquartata · 08-17-2006, 05:48 AM

Except...passing weapons check is NOT all that matters. That only ensures its functionality and conformity to the materials rules. It is still up to the referee to ensure that it fits properly. The armourers do not check that, but the lamé is required to do it nevertheless.

If I try using a foil mask in a sabre bout, will the ref allow it becase it passed the punch test and physical examination by the armourers and bears the inspection mark?

That said---it's up to the referee, or the opponent should he choose to complain, to decide that the lamé is unacceptable. Spectators doing it, especially with kids, is just wrong.

Purple Fencer · 08-17-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyweasle

I was reading one of the reffing threads and I suddenly remembered that my kid DID have a bad experience with a fencing parent - not while fencing but while reffing. Last year she went through the course, passed the test and became a rated ref. She had fun reffing local events but during her first "official" USFA event, a RYC where she had been invited to ref by one of the organizers, she encountered a very nasty parent. It was during a Y12 boys sabre DE where a fencer's father basically started screaming at her and calling her names after his son lost the bout. It didn't matter that the other ref supervising her AND the losing fencer's coach both told her she had made the correct calls - it really turned her off reffing anything but local events (and, obviously, practices and club self-reffing tournies).

I know refs have to be tough, but this is the sort of thing (an adult male screaming at a 15 year old girl) that might be turning kids off from reffing.

That's a case for your kid immediately pulling the appropriate car and holding it up to the offending party...without even looking at them.

I had a parent ***** me out at a local event a few years back...during a hard fought DE. My response was to not look at her, say firmly "That's teh call....back away or I'll card you."

She backed off.

Mo · 08-18-2006, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyweasle

It was during a Y12 boys sabre DE where a fencer's father basically started screaming at her and calling her names after his son lost the bout. It didn't matter that the other ref supervising her AND the losing fencer's coach both told her she had made the correct calls - it really turned her off reffing anything but local events (and, obviously, practices and club self-reffing tournies).

I know refs have to be tough, but this is the sort of thing (an adult male screaming at a 15 year old girl) that might be turning kids off from reffing.

As a parent I would have gone over to the bout committee and asked for help. You can even do that while it is happening. If you don't complain often, the people on BCs will listen to you when you have a legit complaint.
That stuff shouldn't be ignored.
Momster

annacattiva · 08-18-2006, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo

As a parent I would have gone over to the bout committee and asked for help. You can even do that while it is happening. If you don't complain often, the people on BCs will listen to you when you have a legit complaint.
That stuff shouldn't be ignored.
Momster

But shouldn't it be the ref's responsibility to do something about it? That's not something that really needs a bout committee. That's something that (I think) needs a card.

Anna

KD5MDK · 08-18-2006, 06:36 AM

It does. But when the referee fails to act in a situation like this, it is appropriate to let the BC know. They need to know when there's inappropriate behavior in the venue.

sleepyweasle · 08-18-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo

As a parent I would have gone over to the bout committee and asked for help. You can even do that while it is happening. If you don't complain often, the people on BCs will listen to you when you have a legit complaint.
That stuff shouldn't be ignored.
Momster

We couldn't do that as we weren't present - she had gotten a lift to the event from another ref.

I think my daughter felt too intimidated to card anyone but a fencer on the strip (remember - this was her first "big" event) but it would have been nice if the supervising ref had done so (or at least talked to the guy).