Parent Behavior

[mlr2fence]

I agree, at least it seems they were trying to support/ encourage their child.
Some parents seem to have a hard time learning that sometimes the best way is to do nothing, and let the child seek them out.

[suterces]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

That's still a damn sight better than *****ing the kid out for getting beat...

Yes it is.

Was just trying to add that some parents don't understand that trying to help only frustrates their kid some more. I agree with mlr2fence, the best thing for parents to do sometimes is to do nothing.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by suterces

The way to solve this is all parents must take attend a parents clinic to be allowed inside the NAC venue. Hahaa. (ok just kidding).

Have "parent credential" to go along with the coaches credentials. There's something to that...

[lauralitz]

My daughter is aging out of Y10 this year.

Last season, her first, we were treated wonderfully. All the other parents were great. My child had a great season.

This season we ran into a situation which was not so nice that was driven by a parent. I was really turned off by this parent's behavior. My daughter is fencing for one reason and one reason only - she loves this sport. I would not have her involved in fencing for any other reason.

On the other hand I have seen great parenting too. I have been complimented by other parents on my daughters fencing and on how nice my child is (what parent doesn't love to hear that). I also try to support and encourage other parents. There are some wonderful kids in this sport and they all deserve a chance to do their best.

I see myself as my childs mother. I am not her coach. I do not comment on her performance. Both she and her coach can talk about that. I let her come to me. I do give her space and even ask her if she needs space after a loss. The only thing I will not tolerate from her is her yelling at me. I will not serve that roll for her. She tried it once her first season and I basically told her that it was not a acceptable behavior.

I read a book called "Games Girls Play". There is a section in this book for parents that was very good. (would be a good read for parents of boys too)

My hope is that the good parents continue to be in the majority.

LL

[purpzeyFCLI]

When I was in high school during the final bout of the individual county championships there was a questionable call.

Essentially, both fencers are in close distance at Y's end of the strip. X starts an attack, moves past and off Y's end of the strip. Whether or not the attack arrived before or after the pass, I can't say. Y did not leave his end of the strip.

Anyway, this was the equivalent of 14-14, and X wins 15-14. Well, Y's father comes down from the bleachers shortly thereafter and says to the director "You stole it from him, you b****!" and then X's father says "She made the right call..etc.." You get the idea. Well it then comes to, "Let's take it outside."

At that point the entire venue was cleared, no medal ceremony held.

It was rather insane.

[jBirch]

I once overheard the following exchange at a sabre clinic:

Coach: "Come en guarde like this..."
Coach demonstrates.

Coach: "Now reach out and hit me"
Kid reaches out and hits him with the blade. Lots of elbow.

Coach: "Not from the elbow, use the fingers. Again."
Kid reaches out and hits him with the blade. Lots of elbow.

Coach: "I just said, not from the elbow. Again."
Kid reaches out and hits him with the blade. Lots of elbow.

Coach: "Are you deaf? Not from the elbow. Again."
Kid reaches out and hits him with the blade. Lots of elbow.

Coach: [Whips off his mask and sends it flying behind him] "If you EVER use that much elbow again, *I* *WILL* *KILL* *YOU*!!!!"
[Coach retrieves mask]
Coach: "Again".
Kid reaches out and performs a perfect cut with a big grin on his face.

Morale: Not all abuse is bad. Sometimes you just let parents be parents, coaches be coaches and fencers be fencers. Who are you to judge a relationship?

James.

[TrainingDummy]

Originally Posted by mlr2fence

Not all 10 yr old girls are petite little gymnast types. I've seen some big 'bruiser' types that obviously were well along the puberty trail. Unfortunately sometimes their sportsmanship and maturity are not equal to their size for they use their size to 'out muscle' their opponent to win.

A brief aside: alot of kids this age that hit hard are not doing it intentionally. My summer club has alot of age 9-17 fencers... puberty fencers. My coach at this club who has been coaching this age group for awhile has pointed out that their bodies and strength (esp. boys) are developing rapidly and in spurts, often without them noticing. A muscular strength that they never had before often is not recognized by the fencer for awhile, sometimes until the coach or another fencer points it out. If these are newer fencers, this effect can be amplified. I have been fencing for about a year (I'm 21), and my tendency to hit hard on counterattacks when I get nervous is a source of embarrasment for me and I am trying to hard to overcome it. In the meantime, everyone in my club knows that I am a very sportsmanship-oriented, friendly guy and I'm not doing it on purpose. People at tournaments, though, can easily assume I'm just being an ass since they have never met me.

[mlr2fence]

There is a difference between the inadvertent hard hit (usually followed by an apology) and the hit that is hard due to loss of self control, frustration, etc.

[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by jBirch

Coach: [Whips off his mask and sends it flying behind him] "If you EVER use that much elbow again, *I* *WILL* *KILL* *YOU*!!!!"
[Coach retrieves mask]
Coach: "Again".
Kid reaches out and performs a perfect cut with a big grin on his face.

Morale: Not all abuse is bad. Sometimes you just let parents be parents, coaches be coaches and fencers be fencers. Who are you to judge a relationship?

James.

Depending on the tone of what happend it seems almost joke like. Either way I think it's not ethical at all for a coach to in any abuse his or her athlete, especially a child. There are plenty of individuals who raise athletes that are tough as nails because their athletes have to go through a lot stress and verbal abuse. The people that don't get weeded out by getting put down and hurt are those that are ultimately going to have the effort and steadfastness to do well if they don't burn themselves out.

There's a problem inherent in this. The coach is actually changing the athlete's personality. Having a coach that's hard on you all the time when you're young could potentialy mess somone up, and even more so in the case of a verbally abusive parent. Some parents will let their kids go through a lot of stress and trauma at the hands of people just so their kids can do because a lot of parents hold a kind of athletic fanaticism.

I've seen a dozen or two episodes inside of fencing where parents have crossed the line, occasionaly breaking the rules and being asked to leave the venue. In an open event I've even had parents try to psyche me out (I don't know where the got the bizzare idea it'd work) before a bout, who proceded to dance around when their son got a point and kept on stepping on the strip during the DE when the ref wasn't looking.

Chess is a lot worse though. As a tournament director who has run a few scholastic tournaments I have seen parents attempt to register their kids under aliases, use hand signals, smuggle in computers, trash talk others' children (as young as kindergarten), and even intentionally steal sets/clocks/ etc to throw people off.

There needs to be some kind of sanction against abusive parents, but even then, it's just a reality younger athletes have to deal with, and it won't ever completely stop. There are tactless selfish idiots in the world, and sooner or later we all have to learn to deal with them.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by jBirch

Who are you to judge a relationship?

Bear in mind that this coach and kid obviously knew each other, and that it was not harmful to the kid. No abuse, just another way of motivation. The kid was not hurt, and the coach I would guess knew it would not hurt the kid. Unorthodox, but it worked. Even though the coach raised their voice and went through an act of throwing the mask, the whole thing sounds coregraphed and like it had been done before.

It's when coaches/parents act like that when their students/children are NOT cool with it that gets to me, or when they are trying to sabotoge other children.

[Soberin]

Having observed youth fencing explode over the past few years, I have some rules that work for me.

1. Never, EVER, say anything to the losing fencer or his/her family after the bout with your kid. Not "good bout'" not " you fenced well," not anything.

2. If the losing fencer or parent says something nice to you or your kid after the bout, be gracious.

3. Unless you know the other youth fencers well, don't even talk to them between bouts except to say "hello." They don't want to talk to you either. Much can be learned by talking with the parents of more experienced fencers.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Soberin

Having observed youth fencing explode over the past few years, I have some rules that work for me.

1. Never, EVER, say anything to the losing fencer or his/her family after the bout with your kid. Not "good bout'" not " you fenced well," not anything.

2. If the losing fencer or parent says something nice to you or your kid after the bout, be gracious.

3. Unless you know the other youth fencers well, don't even talk to them between bouts except to say "hello." They don't want to talk to you either. Much can be learned by talking with the parents of more experienced fencers.

Hell, this all applies to grown-ups as well.

[Mo]

Originally Posted by Soberin

Having observed youth fencing explode over the past few years, I have some rules that work for me.

1. Never, EVER, say anything to the losing fencer or his/her family after the bout with your kid. Not "good bout'" not " you fenced well," not anything.

2. If the losing fencer or parent says something nice to you or your kid after the bout, be gracious.

3. Unless you know the other youth fencers well, don't even talk to them between bouts except to say "hello." They don't want to talk to you either. Much can be learned by talking with the parents of more experienced fencers.

Excellent advice!!
Another great thing to do is make friends with the parents whose children fence other weapons.

Coaches often send a more experienced fencer over to coach the younger fencer. If you are a parent and can be quiet, being there for the other parent is good for both the fencer and the parent.

Kids can usually pick their parents voices out of the crowd, keeping the parent from stressing at their kid is good karma.

The Momster

[Warrior Princess]

I've seen parents act in many different ways in all the sports that I've played. For example; when I used to play basketball, I was at a state tournament and my team was loosing. Some of the other team's parents started to laugh at us, and as a group of 5th graders, we did not like that.

In fencing, I've seen many different things coming from parents. At state this year, I was fencing particularly badly because a childhood friend had died that Wednesday (the event was Saturday), and I was missing the funeral to be there (I had to; I'm cocaptain). The funeral had started at 11:00am (same time as I was supposed to check in), but I didn't endup fencing untill 2:30. Not to mention, my exboyfriend was there with his new girlfriend (who he started dating less than 3 days after we broke up). Needless to say; I was not having a good day, and was fencing like s*** and crying all over the place (because of missing the funeral). Some parent of another fencer in my pool (after I had fenced her daughter) came up to me after the bout (I lost, but I shouldn't have if I had my head in it), and she was saying how she was actually slightly nervous that I was going to beet her 'little girl' (we're high schoolers), but wasn't really that nervous because she had seen me fence that day. I could've hit her, but that would've gotten me blackcarded. Instead, I just walked outside, and screamed (well out of earshot, and I had 10 minutes to do it because there were a couple of bouts before my next one).

I've also seen parents fawning over their kids, and I don't really like that either. I mean, if their kid wants something, they'll ask a team mate for help or they'll come and ask you. They need to have their head really in the game. My parents don't come to my meets (I don't want them to, and they usually have other things that really need to get done), and I do just fine. They send me with money, and the paper work that I need. If I need something, and can't leave the stip, one of my team mates will help me. I do just fine without my parents hovering. I do also understand that some kids might want that, but when the parent becomes a distraction to the other fencers, that's a problem.

Some parents also cheer for their kids. Fencing isn't exactly the type of sport that you can cheer in. It's unbelevably distracting. They'll also say stuff to the director even when they have no idea what they're talking about. This is definitly one of my pet-peves.

There are also many other kinds of bad parent behavior that happen at meets, even at the high school level. It's not just with the younger kids.

[rocky]

Originally Posted by Warrior Princess

Some parents also cheer for their kids. Fencing isn't exactly the type of sport that you can cheer in. It's unbelevably distracting.

Ummm...there's absolutely nothing wrong with a parent cheering for their child, or anyone cheering in fencing as long as it's not malicious. That's how all sporting events work. And everyone cheers at national and international competitions in fencing, because that's what you do at an event, you root for your competitor. I think that's part the fun of the high-level bouts, such as DIV I MFT, having the two opposing clubs rally all of their fencers to cheer and support their team.

[KD5MDK]

I know some referees who get annoyed by club chants shrieked by cadet girls, but I find them rather entertaining.

[Mond @ Tyng]

erm .. my parent do not what is fencing n they dint even fence before.
but they really support me , so i can take lesson everyday n fence .
last time , when i finish school , my only place is home , now i think is my grandmaster house .
is fun to have lesson from him , i wish he is my grandpa , so i can learn this sport from a long time ago .

anyway , now i m worikin hard to be a master , good master like him ..
/
thanx
merci

[KD5MDK]

You'll get a much better reaction if you use proper spelling and grammar, because at your current levels it's quite hard to understand what you mean.

[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by rocky

Ummm...there's absolutely nothing wrong with a parent cheering for their child, or anyone cheering in fencing as long as it's not malicious. That's how all sporting events work. And everyone cheers at national and international competitions in fencing, because that's what you do at an event, you root for your competitor. I think that's part the fun of the high-level bouts, such as DIV I MFT, having the two opposing clubs rally all of their fencers to cheer and support their team.

The fact that everyone does it makes it the right thing to do?

Quick! Shine the Inq signal! We need his latin-name-for-logical-fallacy-orangs. Keep your eyes out for the cormudgeon mobile! Do I hear an amazingly simmilar theme song to that of Bruce Wayne coming on? Perhaps so.

When I'm fencing I find cheering extremely annoying. I can understand team members inside the box (the two other competitors and the one alternate) cheering or offering advice. I also understand the coach giving advice. I think parents cheering can be extremely distracting to a child, and quite frankly most parents find bad times to cheer, such as when the ref is talking. Clapping after a point is alright, cheering during a point is distracting, maliscious or no.

[Inquartata]

"Oh, wicked, bad, naughty Zoot! She has been setting alight to our beacon, which, I have just remembered, is Inq-signal-shaped. It's not the first time we've had this problem."

Please! Inquartata and Quincunx-woman are "busy". Stop calling and crack a logic primer, Commissioner!