Coaching: Dealing with different age groups

[RITFencing]

I've seen many clubs out there with Adult and Youth Classes, with teens getting stuck with the adults. However, the maturity level of your average teen is very different form that of your average adult, the bodies function differently, and the goals may very well be different.

Are there any clubs out there who have either though of, experimented with, or used, a seperate teen class?

[Mr Epee]

Are there any clubs out there who have either though of, experimented with, or used, a seperate teen class?

I thought most clubs did this?

[RITFencing]

I thought most clubs did this?

The club I fence with (Rochester Fencing Club) lumps everyone over 12 in the adult class, and other clubs with a similar policy that I'm looking at over the web:

New Jersey Fencing Alliance
Buck County Academy of Fencing
Prise de Fer (Though with a slightly different split, children are 8-14, adults > 14)
Rhode Island Fencing Academy and Club
Northwest Fencing Center
Fencers Club

I have also come up with several who have only one class for all ages (Seacoast Fencing, Northhampton Fencing, Medeo) and several who do have seperate teen/junior classes (FASJ, FC Brooklyn.)

So there seem to be a fair number of clubs (some of them quite strong) going in different directions there.

So I'll modify my question: Which route does your club take with teenaged fencers, why, and what sort of up and down sides have you seen from it?

[oso97]

Good topic!

At my club, we have two seperate age groups: Under 13 and 14 and over. Each has seperate classes and training times (Youth are in an afterschool program, adults start later in the evening). Each has its own beginner class. While, ideally, we'd have a seperate beginner class for little kids (under 11), pre-teens and young teens (12-14) and adults and older teens (15 and up) right now there is neither the numbers to support it, space to run it or staff to teach it. Perhaps as we grow in the future.

Promotion from the youth to adult class takes place around age 13 or so, depending on the maturity level of the student. I do try to seperate out the younger teens in the adult class, and pair them together for drills and such.

[RITFencing]

Also, a seperate question: for more advanced competitive classes, does your club put all the age groups together, and how does this affect the dynamic?

[qatet]

FAP has three age groups - Youth (8-13), Cadet (14-18), and Adult (18+). We have some overlap between the groups and some decisions are made on a case-by-case basis depending on size, motor skill, and schedule availability. That said, we have a heck of a lot of classes at our main branch and various satellites, due to high demand and the fact that we have the staff to work the different groups. A youth or cadet fencer who is just starting out has three times when they could come to our main branch, and three or four opportunities at various branches. Adults have only two classes at the main branch and no satellites that are oficially FAP (although there are several that FAP staff run for various evening education programs).

I'm not totally sure what other information you're looking for in this thread, but I'll continue. There are several distinct advantages in separating the teens from the adults. Some of the reasons to separate are pretty mundane - they generally have different schedules to work around, they have different secondary goals for the class (learning to fence is clearly the primary goal, but secondary goals might be getting exercise to avoid a heart attack, meeting a potential spouse, getting the 'rents to stop yelling about too much tv, etc.) Plus, it's generally more fun to learn fencing with a group that you can see as your social peers on some level.

The more important differences in my mind involve how the different groups learn. Teens tend to be a bit more easily moldable than adults (fewer decades of learned physical habits), but aren't as good at concentrating or understanding the fundamental ideas that they are being taught. On the other hand, teens are in the habit of learning and remembering new information - their primary job is to be a student, after all. Adults also often come to us with old injuries or other ailments that we need to work around. Dividing the groups by age means that the coach can tailor the activities and explanations to the different types of learning. Sometimes we do take teens into our adult class if that's the only time that works for them, and it's fine, but we prefer to group people by age.

[daveappr]

Our club seperates 13 and younger in a junior class and 14+ as the adults. We don't get a large turnout for beginner classes when offered, maybe 10 or less. Interaction can sometimes be tricky- for lack of a better term, as some younger teens seem to be leery at first of interacting with adults as a peer. Once the classes get moving in earnest, however, this seems to dissapate quickly. A class can only move along as fast as its weakest member, who usually ends up seeking extra attention first inside then outside of the class- if they're really interested in fencing, others seem to take the -I just wanted to try it out- attitude. We'd like to seperate the kids further, 9-10, 11-12, 13- 15, but our nimbers just don't support that.

[qatet]

Sure, post more questions while I'm typing...

We separate our youth and our cadets into Beginner-Advanced and Competitive and/or Elite groups. (Competitive is, as the name implies, somebody who competes regularly, Elite competes regularly at the national level.) Saturday classes for the youth mix everybody from Beginner through Elite. During the week, we separate their practices. Saturday separates the Elite Cadets from the Beginning-Competitive Cadets. During the week, Cadets are separated into Beginner-Advanced, Competitive/Elite ROW, Competitive/Elite Epee. The ROW/Epee division is both because the open fencing afterwards is divided similarly and (less so) because it allows training a different set of responses through slightly different drills.

[Mr Epee]

Interesting... I really thought that most clubs were more stratified.

I use the following buckets.

7-9
10-13
14-17
18+

Then split these groups between beginner classes and regular (intermediate) students... advanced is pretty much independent study.

Beside the excellent reasons that qatet gives... it's also much easier for me to deal with the class when everyone is the same age.

[RITFencing]

What are your class sizes there? I think one of the reasons some clubs use wider categories is meeting class size requirements.

[Mr Epee]

What are your class sizes there? I think one of the reasons some clubs use wider categories is meeting class size requirements.

Heck, I've had classes with only 2 kids... but then the class grew.

There is something of a chicken + egg going on here.

If people don't feel like their particular age or skill is being catered to, then they can probably find something else to do with their time.

In general, I get uncomfortable if a class has more than 12 people.

[qatet]

One of the ways that FAP makes sure no class is too small is to keep people working within the same group through several levels. (Parents like this, too - no rejuggling schedules every time their kid moves up!) At one of our bigger satellites, we often get 15-20 new kids for the first week or two (oof!), on top of 20 or so returning students. Downtown, tough, it's more common to get 6 or 7 newbies, or even as few as 2 or 3 at some of the less popular start-up times (we take students four times a year. September is quite popular, April less so)

Running a program this way requires some serioius consideration of the curriculum. Every three months you'll start again with beginner material, so the beginner material needs to be something basic enough for them but also adaptable to more complex variations for the advanced kids. (Well, if you had lots of staff, I suppose you wouldn't need this cyclic approach, but this way one coach can guide everybody at once.)