American Fencing/summer issue

**veeco** · 08-10-2002 10:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 135711:

three is too little, 12 too much. i still like the mixed team.<hr /></blockquote>No, you don't understand. 12 is just right. Not too much. Just right.

We're basically saying that even if we look at it in the most extreme way, there is no way fencing will add other events after adding women's sabre.

It's basically women's sabre and then nothing else, and a long period of happiness for everybody.

Can't someone who fences understand that at least?

**JEC** · 08-11-2002 07:56 PM

Actually, now it would be worse for the IOC.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> No, you don't understand. 12 is just right. Not too much. Just right. <hr /></blockquote>Now, the committee in their infinite wisdom has created the possibility of 15 events. Once the sabre mixed team is held at "Lisboa", what can keep from also having epee and foil mixed team events.

[ 08-11-2002, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: JEC ]

**epeemike81** · 08-12-2002 05:36 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JEC:
Actually, now it would be worse for the IOC.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> No, you don't understand. 12 is just right. Not too much. Just right. <hr /></blockquote>Now, the committee in their infinite wisdom has created the possibility of 15 events. Once the sabre mixed team is held at "Lisboa", what can keep from also having epee and foil mixed team events.

<hr /></blockquote>They're not going to have BOTH mixed and single gender teams.... okay, well, they are this year, but if they adopt it in general, the mixed teams will REPLACE single gender teams, and thus lower number of events below ten (6 individual, 3 team) it is one of the possibilities, not the only one.

-m

**D'Artagnan1673** · 08-12-2002 05:48 AM

I too have wondered about this talk of women being equal to men in fencing. First of all, forgive my examples as I've never watched any foil past 1999. If Sergio Golubitsky were to face Sabine Bau, it would be a blowout with Golubitsky. However, I am all in favour of the mixed event where the women fence the women and the men the men. It sounds like it would add a great deal of comradery to fencing.

Also, I love Edew's point about Rene' Roch flinching at the first sign of aggretion in a fencing bout, too true.

**JEC** · 08-12-2002 07:34 AM

I know that the choice was between mixed or male/female teams. However, my only point was that now we have 15 different format events.

**epeemike81** · 08-12-2002 07:49 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JEC:
I know that the choice was between mixed or male/female teams. However, my only point was that now we have 15 different format events.<hr /></blockquote>but your post suggested that they would need to expand to 15 events:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Now, the committee in their infinite wisdom has created the possibility of 15 events. Once the sabre mixed team is held at "Lisboa", what can keep from also having epee and foil mixed team events. <hr /></blockquote>whereas the choice is 9 or 12.

-m

**JEC** · 08-12-2002 10:10 AM

They key was "the committee ... has created the POSSIBILITY of 15 events".
Let's assume that the mixed format is a great success. It is POSSIBLE (albeit unlikely) that 20 years from now, once people are used to both mixed and single gender teams, we could have 15 fencing events in the olympics if there were no restrictions on the number of athletes or medals. Veeco suggested that 12 events and it was over. My point was that IOC somewhat forced FIE to create another format (mixed team), and in fact, that increase the number of "POSSIBLE" fencing events.

**epeemike81** · 08-12-2002 10:24 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JEC:
It is POSSIBLE (albeit unlikely) that 20 years from now, once people are used to both mixed and single gender teams, we could have 15 fencing events in the olympics if there were no restrictions on the number of athletes or medals. Veeco suggested that 12 events and it was over. My point was that IOC somewhat forced FIE to create another format (mixed team), and in fact, that increase the number of "POSSIBLE" fencing events.<hr /></blockquote>and my point is that if the mixed teams are a "great success", they will REPLACE the single gender teams. Thus, nobody 20 yrs down the line will be "used to both".

12 events IS the upper limit, Veeco is right.

**HilandDoug** · 08-12-2002 11:08 AM

Zelda, shouldn't you be handing ME that large beer and kissing ME on the cheek, as it was I who was on the soap box (and like getting kissed by pretty girls!)?

Mo, that's HilandDoug, not Hil & Doug. There is no Hil. It's a bastardization of HighlandDoug, as in Doug from the Highlands of Scotland (I wish!), but AOL didn't allow that many letters in a screenname years back, so I had to shorten it somehow. I've visited Scotland twice, been to the Highlands, and love it to death! Even fenced close to the area that Rob Roy supposedly fought his last duel. (This was important to me, as Rob died as a result of a fued with my ancestors in Clan MacLaren. He was actually wounded as he fought Alistar Stewart, if I remember correctly, who was fighting on behalf of MacLaren.)

**Zelda** · 08-12-2002 01:34 PM

Fixed Doug....

**135711** · 08-12-2002 04:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
I too have wondered about this talk of women being equal to men in fencing. First of all, forgive my examples as I've never watched any foil past 1999. If Sergio Golubitsky were to face Sabine Bau, it would be a blowout with Golubitsky. However, I am all in favour of the mixed event where the women fence the women and the men the men. It sounds like it would add a great deal of comradery to fencing.

Also, I love Edew's point about Rene' Roch flinching at the first sign of aggretion in a fencing bout, too true.<hr /></blockquote>This is my point, this is the reason i brought this up, the camradery of fencing, the bon temp rollez, if we can't get along better together how can we expect anyone else to? we compete, but we compete fairly, nicely, with manners, etc. but we wanna win, it can be done. so 12 events:
wf, mf, we, me, ws, ms
wtf mtf, wte, mte, wts, mts

or since there's so much controversy:
wf, mf, we, me, ws, ms
tf, te, ts [9 events}

**three_hundred_fifty_five** · 08-12-2002 05:56 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by HilandDoug:
Zelda, shouldn't you be handing ME that large beer and kissing ME on the cheek, as it was I who was on the soap box (and like getting kissed by pretty girls!)?

Mo, that's HilandDoug, not Hil & Doug. There is no Hil. It's a bastardization of HighlandDoug, as in Doug from the Highlands of Scotland (I wish!), but AOL didn't allow that many letters in a screenname years back, so I had to shorten it somehow. I've visited Scotland twice, been to the Highlands, and love it to death! Even fenced close to the area that Rob Roy supposedly fought his last duel. (This was important to me, as Rob died as a result of a fued with my ancestors in Clan MacLaren. He was actually wounded as he fought Alistar Stewart, if I remember correctly, who was fighting on behalf of MacLaren.)<hr /></blockquote>A bastardization of Highland Doug... I did not know that. I also thought it was Hil and Doug.

Mo · 08-12-2002 11:02 PM

Mo, that's HilandDoug, not Hil & Doug. There is no Hil. It's a bastardization of HighlandDoug, as in Doug from the Highlands of Scotland (I wish!), but AOL didn't allow that many letters in a screenname years back, so I had to shorten it somehow.
Well HiLANDDoug you should have a nice simple name like Mo!
I do apologize though, so sorry, I thought there were two of you and at least the banana boy is as confused as I am.

**veeco** · 08-13-2002 12:30 AM

Don't you just LOVE Aol?

**Inquartata** · 08-13-2002 07:04 PM

I do not.

**Gav** · 08-13-2002 07:17 PM

"Hil and Doug" Aha ha ha

LOL

I never picked up on that! That would make 'Doug a schizoprenic with a multiple personality/gender disorder.

**HilandDoug** · 08-14-2002 07:51 AM

I'm almost unaware of this discussion, as I'm still swooning from Zelda's correction!

No, I don't love AOL, and yes, I wish I had picked a more simple screenname, but at this point, it's too late!

**Zelda** · 08-14-2002 01:08 PM

As usual I didnt intend to cause Chaos but I did. Sleep calls...2.5 in the last 24 is not good.

**135711** · 08-15-2002 04:01 PM

interesting topic. anything else about the issue? there was less ranting, more about fencing. pretty good.

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