Coaching: Epee Beat Technique

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

While everyone knows that essentially a beat is a movement used to knock your opponents point out of the way (lets not get into noise beats, tempo disruption, ect. I just want to talk about beats for removing blades), how do YOU beat your opponents blade?

I've seen it taught a few different ways, such as a quick wrist turn, a flexing of the wrist inward, a movement from the rotator cuff, ect. Is there any common concensus amongst elite coaches?

[Allen Evans]

..... a movement from the rotator cuff, ect. .....

That sounds difficult, and painful.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

That sounds difficult, and painful.

Yeah.... its not cool.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Make it as small as possible and use your fingers.

[RITFencing]

I find by squeezing the grip a bit and making a quick turn of my forearm inwards I can make a sharp, powerful beat. But then, I'm a fairly large person, so your mileage may vary this way. The squeezing, which is just for a sec, really does help make it quite powerful.

[keith]

The 'classic' epee beat I have always been taught involves a sharp contact using the edge of the blade (which involves, a very slight, wrist movement not seen in the foil beat) - As per RITF's suggestion.

The key is that as you come off the beat your point should bounce off the opponents blade with the point accelarating to target - think lateral movement for the beat then bounce forward off the contact. So its not beat...extend its beatextend.

Then all you need to do is repeat from a slightly longer distance and its beatextenddisenagelunge.

Just remember that for epee ensuring that your student moves fingers arm feet in the appropriate order is the greatest coaching gift you have to give.

Also remember to do the drill where you beat and the pupil uses that as the cue to extend and hit you - unless your opponent is very good simply not being phased/freezing on the beat will get them a few points.

[epeeisky]

The way my coach taught me to beat is much like RIT. First rotate the blade by rotating the forearm so that the lateral edge of your blade will make contact with your opponents blade. This will give the greatest force against the opposing blade. Then a quick contraction of the fingers will cause the opponents blade to be knocked out of line. The resistance force will cause your blade to bounce the other way and is used to put your point on target.

[RITFencing]

A few things I should note...

I teach students to extend a bit first, then beat, then continue to the target, or even to extend while beating. It kills the pause that beginners tend to have (what I call a beat... attack instead of a beat attack) between the beat and the hit. If you're trying to hit and not just fient with the beat attack, then the window is generally not open very long.

I tell students not to beat through their opponent's blade but rather to bounce off of it, agian increasing the speed and making it a much more crisp action. If they continue to move in the same direction after they make contact, it isn't a beat so much as an overly strong press.

One ifnal action, and this applies to many different attacks, I remind the student that the time when someone is vulnerable is when their blade is in motion away form yours, because they will complete that motion before coming back to close the line. If the student waits too long, be it after a beat or after a disengage or whatever the reason, the window is generally lost unless the student is much faster than the opponent. When a line appears to be open (in this case from the beat) unless the opponent's blade is still moving, the time it takes to close that line is very small. This is why people who fence absence of blade can still take parries in a high outside line; the extra motion in the same direction isn't the killer... it's the CHANGE of direction.

[fluidfencer]

It really depends on where your trying to hit. My beat for a hand hit is sort of a slide along the opponents blade that pushes their blade down and to my left, leaving my point in line to hit the wrist/arm. It's all fingers.

A hit to the body is more latteral (their blade directed to my left, not much downward movement), forceful, maybe just a little wrist... but the blade then bouces back to be in line for the hit to the body.

Of course, there are lots of ways to use beats, and beats in combination with other actions, but I think this is what our friend D+F+P was asking.

[Epeecurean]

There is something quite different about an epee beat-hit to the hand...

In a traditional beat you generally aim to be a bit more forte versus their foible, but in an epee beat-hit to the hand you can do a forceful beat of your opponent's blade near his/her guard (the forte) with the upper-third of your blade (the foible). Sounds backwards, eh?

The idea is that when you bang their blade near the guard you can actually displace their hand position more and expose more hand. Secondly, your point now has less distance to travel to hit the target - it'll be right there with a quick turn of the wrist back to position.
(I'm thinking primarily of a beat-4 here by the way.)

[the doc]

sometimes just clanging one directly into the guard will work as a beat to hand as well. it moves their sword and means that you point doesn't have very far to travel either.

not always that easy to control, but as a change up it can be quite effective as surprise value

[fluidfencer]

clarification... When I said "slide along the opponents blade" I was referring to something that occurred in a fraction of a second. It's should be more effective in displacing the blade than trying to do it hitting the forte or the bell guard, and there's less bounce (better point control).

[Mr Epee]

I find by squeezing the grip a bit and making a quick turn of my forearm inwards I can make a sharp, powerful beat.

I've been trying to visualize/perform this, and either I'm not understanding, or there is something terribly wrong with your mechanics.

What's the point of the rotation?

Were you taught this, or did you figure it out on your own?

----------------

On to the actual question.

I'm not a big fan of beats against the blade, because they tend to cause unpredictable reactions from my opponents. However, when I do beat the blade its almost entirely with the fingers (almost no wrist/arm movement) while using my opponent's blade as a springboard towards the target.

But why beat and scare, when you can use filo actions to keep things under control until the final moment.

[Allen Evans]

Epee beats are "safe" in that they interact with the opponent's blade further away from the opponent's tip than oppositions or other engagements do. However, this is also what limits their effectiveness. It's a good technique for beginning and intermidiate fencers to learn (and something advance fencers can do on occasion, but rarely to "open the target"). Even a good beat slows the extension that comes off of it, and bad beats are easily taken advantage of. The harder the beat the easier it is to use against the opponent.

When I teach the beat, I do it with a finger action, which requires the grip be held softly at the start. If the student isn't holding the blade softly, they can't make a beat without twisting their wrist/forearm, opening themsleves up to those clever epee fencers that give the student the blade to beat, and then hit with a flick to the arm when the student winds up.

The beat has to be almost in one motion, much like RITFencing and Mr Epee describe, extending as a part of the beat and moving towards the target.

I'm dubious (to say the least) about the effectiveness of banging on the opponents bell guard as "beat". It is the sort of action that a good fencer might let happen once, encouraging the opponent to continue to make that sort of action so the blade can be taken more easily.

[keith]

I'm dubious (to say the least) about the effectiveness of banging on the opponents bell guard as "beat". It is the sort of action that a good fencer might let happen once, encouraging the opponent to continue to make that sort of action so the blade can be taken more easily.

One off actions that, get the opponent looking for a repeat, can be a valuable way of distracting an opponent while you busily go about hittting them in a more orthodox manner.

I think at least part of the problem is the idea of what the epee beat is and what it is intended to acheive (within a given fencers tactical framework).

So getting the opponent to perform a search or take when your tip is on their guard can be a very good thing - especially if one uses a french grip.

A good epeeist should be able to do a variety of beats at different points of the opponents blade - assuming they are actually using the beat as part of their repetoire.

There are certainly other ways of controlling and opening the line - froissements and glides spring to mind - which are often more efficient at generating an open target. Although in both cases the risk is transfered to the finding of the opponents blade and then maintaining control over it.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I've
But why beat and scare, when you can use filo actions to keep things under control until the final moment.

Mr epee,

What exactly are "filo" actions?

[Mr Epee]

Mr epee,

What exactly are "filo" actions?

Hmmm... how is this not a common term.
Not your fault; I looked in the glossary.

It's a binding thrust.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Hmmm... how is this not a common term.
Not your fault; I looked in the glossary.

It's a binding thrust.

Aha.

Ok.

I assume that filo is a hungarian term?

[telkanuru]

As usual, Mr. E has said it perfectly.

I do find a beat exellent prep for a flick, though and specifically a 5-beat to be excellent prep for a toe flick, mainly because it does tend to generate more predictable reactions, as well as aiding the speed of my tip on the rebound. of course, using a beat-flick as anything but a prep action for a binding action to deeper target is at best unwise.

[Mr Epee]

I assume that filo is a hungarian term?

It's commonly used in Hungary, but I always assumed it was Italian in origin.