08-04-2006, 03:14 PM
|
#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Bowie, MD, USA
Posts: 378
| Divisions & Colleges
There has been a lot of discussion about divisions lately, and I thought I would throw out another topic. For those of you in college teams/clubs, what is the relationship between your org and the division? Do you more or less ignore the division, or are you actively involved? Does the division support you, or do you support the division? Can you call on your division to help you with intercollegiate events, or are you on your own?
I suspect that there is a whole range of answers on this, everywhere from "My college club/team IS the division" to "we never speak with the division."
A long time ago, my club was central to the division. While we did not often play a leadership role, we hosted most of the events, because we could provide cheap space.
As other clubs in the division expanded and got new facilities, we were hosting less and less. Over the past five years, my club has shifted it's focus from USFA to intercollegiate events, and we are hosting only one USFA event a year. I think we would like to host more, but between the busy college schedule, increasing scrutiny of the university & fear of student (and coach) burnout, we rarely find an opportunity to do so.
W | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
| |
08-04-2006, 03:54 PM
|
#2 | | Armorer
Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,332
| Let me discuss the Orange Coast Division. In answer to your questions, I can say Yes, No, Maybe and sometimes.
The division has been centered by Long Beach State. The University no longer has a team, but most of the division tournaments are at Long Beach State. Even LBI has a history with the school as it was an 'Invitational' inviting other universities to go to. The boundary is odd. The USFA would like to make things simple and have bounderies work with county bounderies, such as San Bernadino is San Bernadino and Riverside counties. With Orange Coast because of Long Beach State, it is Orange County plus the part of Long Beach, etc. bordered on the North by the 91 freeway and on the west by the 710 freeway. That means parts of Long Beach (and other cities) are in Orange Coast and parts are in Southern California division.
Cal State Fullerton until a couple of years ago was in the Southern California division using the coaches house as their address. The University nor the coach had not moved, but they decided to work more with the division.
The colleges and the division do have a working relationship. There is equipment borrowed back and forth. The college Armorers are at many of the division meets and I try to make as many of the collegiate meets as I can. The schedule of both is worked out to avoid conflicts.
__________________
Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr. DHCJr@juno.com
To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)
Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
| |
| | |
08-04-2006, 04:04 PM
|
#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Meadville, PA
Posts: 574
| At Allegheny College, we're a member club of the Western PA division. Since there is no club circuit around us, all of our fencing is done at USFA events in the division or in the Northern OH division. The Western PA division provides us with support. We host one tournament a year, which is pretty well attended, and we have quite a bit of help/guidance from many folks in the division. I don't know what would happen if we had an intercollegiate non-USFA event. I've never broached the topic of borrowing the division's equipment for something like that, but it seems fair that we would have to pay a rental fee.
Tomas Quote: |
Originally Posted by Wafath There has been a lot of discussion about divisions lately, and I thought I would throw out another topic. For those of you in college teams/clubs, what is the relationship between your org and the division? Do you more or less ignore the division, or are you actively involved? Does the division support you, or do you support the division? Can you call on your division to help you with intercollegiate events, or are you on your own?
As other clubs in the division expanded and got new facilities, we were hosting less and less. Over the past five years, my club has shifted it's focus from USFA to intercollegiate events, and we are hosting only one USFA event a year. I think we would like to host more, but between the busy college schedule, increasing scrutiny of the university & fear of student (and coach) burnout, we rarely find an opportunity to do so.
W | | |
| | |
08-04-2006, 04:25 PM
|
#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 3,954
| Smith and Mount Holyoke fencers often fence with the Northampton Fencing Center. UMass fencers either fence for UMass (a USFA club), or they fence for Prise de Fer (since some of them fenced for Prise before they got to college). In all cases here, we're talking about the New England Division.
Although Smith hosted a fairly large and successful USFA tournament 3 or 4 years ago, the main contribution you see from these schools (Namely Smith and UMass) to the division is refs. There are a large number of current students or alums from Smith and Umass who are rated refs, and ref at events in the division.
Despite the huge number of fencers at other schools, I actually can't think of anyone currently in a college program (or a recent alum of such a program) that refs in the division with any regularity. (I'm probably missing one or two individuals, but I'm certainly not missing a group the size of the UMass students/alums.)
__________________
---Myrddin Pythagoras' Flying Circus---
(and now for something completly the same: thread drift and oversharing!)
"Where's the plasma?" | |
| | |
08-04-2006, 04:55 PM
|
#5 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,376
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint <Discussion of Smith, Mount Holyoke, and UMass and refereeing contributions to New England Division> | Interestingly, note that the division to which most of the UMass fencers/alums contribute by refereeing is NOT the division to which the club belongs. 
To answer the OP:
Temple hosts a USFA tournament each semester and occasionally lends some of our equipment to the division. Mostly though what we do and what the rest of the division does are fairly separate. Our fencers compete in occasional division events, but there tend not to be huge numbers of such events available, and during the competitive season we have collegiate competitions every weekend. Many of the events which ARE available are about an hour's drive from Philadelphia (BCAF), which puts them out of reach of most of our fencers who don't have access to cars while here at school.
When I was an undergrad (Johns Hopkins) the division (Maryland) was effectively based out of our fencing room. The vast majority of events took place in our facility. Most of the organization and operations were conducted by members of our team or of the club that met in our fencing room in the evenings. Many of the other events were hosted by St John's College in Anapolis (so basivally the other end of the division).
-B
__________________ http://www.usfanominees.com The USFA-nominated officer candidates for the 2008-2012 term
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
| |
| | |
08-05-2006, 05:29 AM
|
#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I have no home
Posts: 1,773
| At my school I'd say we're actively part of the division. We host about 4 or 5 division tournaments usually before the reason starts and 2-3 more if possible after the season has started (usually early spring semester). We tend to send equipment to division events if necessary and usually send JV fencers to events around the division when everyone else travels. We also tend to send referees to wherever. Heck we even vote in the elections.
__________________
I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
"Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West
| |
| | |
08-05-2006, 02:17 PM
|
#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Amherst, MA and Franklin, MA
Posts: 2,411
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint Smith and Mount Holyoke fencers often fence with the Northampton Fencing Center. UMass fencers either fence for UMass (a USFA club), or they fence for Prise de Fer (since some of them fenced for Prise before they got to college). In all cases here, we're talking about the New England Division.
Although Smith hosted a fairly large and successful USFA tournament 3 or 4 years ago, the main contribution you see from these schools (Namely Smith and UMass) to the division is refs. There are a large number of current students or alums from Smith and Umass who are rated refs, and ref at events in the division.
Despite the huge number of fencers at other schools, I actually can't think of anyone currently in a college program (or a recent alum of such a program) that refs in the division with any regularity. (I'm probably missing one or two individuals, but I'm certainly not missing a group the size of the UMass students/alums.) | What Smith fencers are refs in the area?? Especially currently, I can't think of even one.
__________________
-Kevin
| |
| | |
08-05-2006, 02:29 PM
|
#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 356
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC] What Smith fencers are refs in the area?? Especially currently, I can't think of even one. | Me, usually, when I'm not elsewhere getting a degree.
Anna | |
| | |
08-05-2006, 03:34 PM
|
#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 1,005
| All the University of Houston club ever had to do with the Gulf Coast divison while I was there was to put our tournament on the division calender. Most of our members didn't go to other tournaments within the division and very few of us contributed to the divison by way of reffing or hosting qualifiers. Even fewer ofthe members voted in officer elections and none of them ran for office.
So, in short, not much.
__________________
The solution to your problem is to fence another weapon.
| |
| | |
08-05-2006, 05:04 PM
|
#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Amherst, MA and Franklin, MA
Posts: 2,411
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by annacattiva Me, usually, when I'm not elsewhere getting a degree.
Anna | Yeah I was thinking of you, but that's one fencer/ref from the school, who isn't actually in the area currently....I wouldn't say that means Smith sends a lot of refs to the division.
__________________
-Kevin
| |
| | |
08-05-2006, 09:15 PM
|
#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: North attleboro, MA
Posts: 1,714
| Well, before leaving the country ~last year Anna was very active as a referee within the division.
But...that was a while ago. And is still only one person. Is there anyone we're overlooking, ashley?
__________________
Mr. Teapot says:
Paranoia is just good sense if people are actually out to get you.
| |
| | |
08-06-2006, 04:58 AM
|
#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 356
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by whtouche Well, before leaving the country ~last year Anna was very active as a referee within the division.
But...that was a while ago. And is still only one person. Is there anyone we're overlooking, ashley? | Ruth Ann refs, as does Kate Thomas. Of course, that's New York and Philadelphia respectively. It used to be as well (not sure about this year) that the Smithies tended to be more willing to help ref in self-reffed pools than the general run of women fencers (partly, possibly, because at a lot of local events we were also the oldest of the bunch).
Anna | |
| | |
08-07-2006, 10:00 AM
|
#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 3,954
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by annacattiva Ruth Ann refs, as does Kate Thomas. Of course, that's New York and Philadelphia respectively. It used to be as well (not sure about this year) that the Smithies tended to be more willing to help ref in self-reffed pools than the general run of women fencers (partly, possibly, because at a lot of local events we were also the oldest of the bunch).
Anna |
This was, in fact, mostly my point.
Although it should be noted that there are quite a few Smithies who took the clinic this past year, and swear that they intend to actually ref. Whether or not they will actually do this, God only knows--- however, the fact that they took the seminar at all shows a greater interest in contributing by reffing than pretty much any school other than UMass.
Also, if you had been at the Noho E, you would have witnessed quite a few Smithies reffing.....
It's not that there are a huge number of Smithie Refs, but if you look at the size of the program and the number of refs, and then compare that to any other program in the area other than Umass............ Then there are, in fact, a considerable number of people.....
__________________
---Myrddin Pythagoras' Flying Circus---
(and now for something completly the same: thread drift and oversharing!)
"Where's the plasma?" | |
| | |
08-07-2006, 10:35 AM
|
#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Chelmsford, MA
Posts: 1,756
| There is another active Smith referee... At least she was yesterday anyway... and that would be MP... She refereed at our Y-12 event yesterday.
-w | |
| | |
08-07-2006, 11:10 AM
|
#15 | | Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: FL
Posts: 40
| At the University of Florida we are very involved in the division. We want to contribute to decisions considering the fact that we make up a relatively large portion of the division's competitive fencing body. There are several UF fencers and alumni fencers including myself actually on the board, though I think only a few of us (if any) fence with other clubs within the division outside of UF.
__________________
dont touch that squirrels nuts, it will make him crazy!!
-willy wonka
| |
| | |
08-07-2006, 11:24 AM
|
#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 3,954
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by DJ Apostrophe There is another active Smith referee... At least she was yesterday anyway... and that would be MP... She refereed at our Y-12 event yesterday.
-w | Yes, but somehow, I don't think I'm exactly what KShan and Whtouche were thinking of 
hehe!
__________________
---Myrddin Pythagoras' Flying Circus---
(and now for something completly the same: thread drift and oversharing!)
"Where's the plasma?" | |
| | |
08-07-2006, 11:53 AM
|
#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Houston/Galveston, Texas, USA
Posts: 457
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Katman All the University of Houston club ever had to do with the Gulf Coast divison while I was there was to put our tournament on the division calender. Most of our members didn't go to other tournaments within the division and very few of us contributed to the divison by way of reffing or hosting qualifiers. Even fewer ofthe members voted in officer elections and none of them ran for office.
So, in short, not much. | Except, Katman, for yourself.
Enjoy Ithaca!
It was always a pleasure crossing foils with you and sharing referee duties. | |
| | |
08-07-2006, 12:07 PM
|
#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 3,954
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by oiuyt Interestingly, note that the division to which most of the UMass fencers/alums contribute by refereeing is NOT the division to which the club belongs. | I was under the belief that "back in the day", when someone from UMass registered, there was about a 50/50 chance they would register in the New England Division........
More recently..... there were about 4 people who represented UMass in USFA events, two of which (I believe) are no longer representing UMass, the other two have yet to register for the USFA this season.......
(and I believe they have all registered in the New England Division........)
__________________
---Myrddin Pythagoras' Flying Circus---
(and now for something completly the same: thread drift and oversharing!)
"Where's the plasma?" | |
| | |
08-07-2006, 12:37 PM
|
#19 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,376
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint I was under the belief that "back in the day", when someone from UMass registered, there was about a 50/50 chance they would register in the New England Division........ | Depends on which "day".
When I was a UMass student (98-99 season) everyone who was a USFA member was a member of CT div.
When I started coaching UMass (99-00 season) I was NE Div, as were 1-2 others who had come with experience from the Boston area, there was 1 H-B member (with experience from that area), and a bunch of CT people (some with experience elsewhere, most having started at UMass). Over time the balance has shifted as more people come experienced from Boston or get most of their USFA experience from being dragged to Boston events by those who did.
An interesting phenomenon over the past couple of seasons has been people representing a club other than UMass. Prior to that it didn't matter where someone came from, everyone repped UMass. A couple of years ago a couple of people officially listed as PdF instead. A combination between PdF people entering UMass and remaining listed as PdF and people that started at UMass listing as PdF has resulted in UMass being a minority representation among actively-competing fencers from UMass.
-B
__________________ http://www.usfanominees.com The USFA-nominated officer candidates for the 2008-2012 term
"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
| |
| | |
![KShan5[PrFC]'s Avatar](customavatars/avatar1334_12.gif){kind=avatar}
