Let's stay on topic...

[Gav]

I know it's difficult; it's really difficult when you are discussing ROW for the umpteenth time; but let's try and stay on topic.

Keep non-fencing chat for the water cooler.

I know me and Craig are pretty relaxed about how you participate in threads however if it's fencing chat - stick to fencing chat. The quality of discussion (ROW notwithstanding) on this board is what keeps people coming back to it.

I am getting annoyed with having to delete numerous posts out of fencing threads.

For the record: "Excessive off topic posts made baby Jesus cry."

I'll leave this up for 24hrs and then delete it.

One other thing.

A discussion forum is not a chat medium - unlike AIM or MSN messenger - so don't use it as such*. Short, choppy - normally off-topic - replies make it difficult to read what other people have to say. If you have nothing to say then don't say it.

This ends your service announcement - have a nice day.

* Ok, so sometimes a short answer is all that is needed. I mean; come on folks, use some common sense. Ymmv.

[Craig]

Due to a couple of PMs received about this post, I'm opening up the thread for comment.

Some have voiced concern that we are making up rules that you have no idea how they will be implemented.

Well, you're right. How far off-topic is off-topic? We know it when we see it is the best of the vague answers we can give. We have both already been actively deleting threads and posts that "cross the line" but have seen the frequency increase lately, hence Gav's post.

I suspect it is a result of summer boredom, but if you're bored, go do something else instead of registering a new persona just to lay out some forum droppings.

When there are forum droppings, someone has to clean them up. Since nobody else wants to step up to assist with moderation duties, that leaves it to me and Gav. Our time is limited, so time spent cleaning up some of the junk that gets posted here cuts into time that should be spent on other things, and that makes me cranky (and I'm sure Gav also.)

Gav seems to have a little bit more time than me, hence his initiative to make a post.

The stance he's taking is really nothing different than what we have been doing behind the scenes for over a year now.

If everyone would feel more comfortable with a 7 page ruleset that you all need to digitally sign before making a post, I'm sure I could get that written up, but I'd rather people use common sense, refrain from ad hominems and not register new personas for the purpose of dropping bombs on other members while remaining "anonymous", at least to other members of the forum.

Craig

[KD5MDK]

If everyone would feel more comfortable with a 7 page ruleset that you all need to digitally sign before making a post, I'm sure I could get that written up,

Consider how many epee fencers we have here.

[Mr Epee]

These are the posts that I've moved from the other thread... on the same subject that I had to start numerous times because Gav refused to allow debate/discussion on the subject.

Originally Posted by MrE Post #1

This is not a forum designed for academic debate... if Gav wishes it to be something other than what it is... I suggest he take it up with the forum owner... instead of whining about it. And then dodging any debate by slamming the thread closed.

Originally Posted by MrE post#2

This current thread is the 5th incarnation of my objection. Gavin Totalitarius deleted all my other threads before anyone could read them... this thread he allowed to survive, but only once he moved it to this back water of the forum... meanwhile his sticky edict lives!

Originally Posted by MrE Post #3

Ok...

A 'forum' is defined as a public meeting place for open discussion.

I made a serious error last night in my posting... I suggested Gavin Totalitarius take this matter up with the forum owner. While the idea made sense at the time, it was based on a grave fallacy. Craig owns a url and some software. So in the literal sense he owns the forum. However, we, the participants, comprise the community that gives this forum any value.

What Gav did by deleting a number of posts, publishing his edict, and then trying to slam the door closed on any discussion - was against the the spirit of this healthy community. It was a distinctly inappropriate manner of dealing with things, and a horrible offense against the principles of an open society.

If a particular discussion is illegal (e.g., assassination plots, pedophililic baiting, display of pornographic material to minors), then it is absolutely appropriate to a moderator to act unilaterally to end the discussion and probably report to the appropriate authorities. However, deleting posts, posting edicts, and slamming threads closed is the wrong course of action when the offense is merely an inability to stay on topic... Good Lord... how childish... how silly... how obscene.

[Craig]

I see where Mr Epee is going with his line of reasoning.

One thing that he fails to mention is that I have been deleting posts ever since the forum began. There are posts that cross the line, there are threads that should not be started and have been deleted.

Think about it this way - If to make a certain comment or post, or to start a thread you decide that you need a new forum persona to do it that you don't want easily tracked by to your "standard" one, then you should expect that to be deleted since you're not willing to let that post/your comments stand from your other accumulated works.

Also - threads or posts that are ad hominems have and always will be discouraged. Ones that get through undeleted are simply because I generally have better things to do than monitor every single post in every single thread.




Craig

[Mr Epee]

How many times do we need to hear that the "poll is flawed" ... hmm... those posts are probably worthy of deletion too.

And how about those game threads... or Fantasy Land?

[MyrddinsPrecint]

So, is your point "There have been more posts and threads that have been deleted recently, please stop" or is it "there are plenty of threads currently in existance that are bad"?

Because i'm reading one from Gav's posts and one from Craig's, and I'm not sure if each are saying different things, or I'm interpreting someone wrong, or what.

[Fencergrl]

I personally don't mind a little thread drift... conversations are like that. On-line they're easy enough to just skim over. I find some humour gets deleted... while other comments are without a doubt over the line.

I recognize that my tastes are not the same as everyone's.... but then again, neither is Gav's.

To use a specific example... I used to find RL's posts annoying. After a while, I realized that you can take very little of what he has to say serious. He likes to get people worked up. This does liven up the forum from time to time. I for one appreciate this.

Fencing Jesus is another one, that others can find annoying, but I personally find quite funny. His posts seldom attack others. I also noticed that when he started posting the other day... everyone else woke up and started posting. Fencing Jesus made f-net more enjoyable for me for a few hours.

Poulet is another one who has some great one-liners and puts a different spin on a topic.

One of the side benefits of having people around that are a little different than your typical posters is they stir the pot a little. They may not have anything interesting to say, but they get people talking and thinking about the topic at hand.

I would be careful about running off all the people on f-net that do this.

I also don't mind if any (or all) are or have an alias. The benefit is: Their alias is not going to post frequently. When they do post, they at least understand the personalities and culture of f-net.

Allowing them to keep their alias (and not create new ones all the time) gives the rest of us familiarity with that alias thus allowing us to put their posts in context. It also is a fun game via PM to try and guess aliases!

That's my 2 cents....

[oiuyt]

Shouldn't this discussion be in the comments & suggestions area? ;)

FencingJesus came VERY close to being the first person on my ignore list. He's just annoying.

Poulet can (more when he was new) come across as a jerk (not like he's the only one), but he also has interesting/thoughtful posts as well.

-B

[Peach]

I for one make extensive use of the "ignore" function, which tends to clean up threads considerably (I practice a high-speed scroll in order to keep up with things, and find playful clutter mildly annoying). YMMV

[Fencergrl]

No doubt you're not the only one who finds Fencing Jesus annoying... but I've noticed a few times he's managed to liven up f-net by getting people posting.

So does it matter if he doesn't have much of value to contribute? His existance encourages those that do, to contribute.

[Fencing Jesus]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

FencingJesus came VERY close to being the first person on my ignore list. He's just annoying.

-B

Please, please, please, don't ignore me.

I'm here to seek and to save those who are lost. Luke 19:10

P.S. I really hope all this fuss isn't about me.

[Goofy]

A little thread drift is not a problem. However, in line with 'they're easy enough to just skim over' those who thrive on thread drift can just as easily skim over a thread they feel is dull. Long strings of off-topic and off-color remarks are not required every time Forum members become bored.

There are separate areas for discussion and entertainment here. The moderators are simply asking that we keep our posts in the appropriate areas as much as possible.

And the bashing of Gav and any other moderators should stop. When editing threads and post contents they are normally acting on the requests of Forum members.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Goofy

And the bashing of Gav and any other moderators should stop. When editing threads and post contents they are normally acting on the requests of Forum members.

That's a very nice thought... but there are many things about f.net that many people find annoying for many different reasons*. However, most of us just ignore and move on. Some people make a big hub-bub and start spamming the moderators.


* my own list is extensive.

[Morion]

Just in general I think Craig and Gav are trying to herd cats in this case. This is an internet forum and as such it will always be at best a little out of control. There will be newbies who blunder through without checking on board policy along with trolls, egomaniacs, and just plain idiots. Such is the nature of the internet, you have to accept the bad as well as the good. Good Luck to our fearless moderators, but I fear they have an uphill battle here!

[Mr Epee]

Craig and Gav may not realize it, but Fencergrl is by far the most effective moderator on this forum. You wouldn't believe the number of people she's talked out of the trees... it goes to show that being friendly goes much further than posting edicts and deleting posts.

[Fencergrl]

Bah... I just try and remind people not to pick on the newcomers. That happened to me and I didn't like it. S'wench stuck up for me, so I do the same.

The old *fencergrl reaches out and smacks <insert name> on the side of the head* works well.... for those that get out of hand.

I think we all need to work as a community to keep f-net a friendly fun place to hang out.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

So, is your point "There have been more posts and threads that have been deleted recently, please stop" or is it "there are plenty of threads currently in existance that are bad"?

Because i'm reading one from Gav's posts and one from Craig's, and I'm not sure if each are saying different things, or I'm interpreting someone wrong, or what.

This is pretty much the page I'm on. Because I've seen some totally worthless threads recently, I've seen some hardcore thread drift, and I've seen some non-sequiter trolls in threads, and I'm not sure if all of the above are seen as the problem, or just some.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Gav

A discussion forum is not a chat medium - unlike AIM or MSN messenger - so don't use it as such*. Short, choppy - normally off-topic - replies make it difficult to read what other people have to say. If you have nothing to say then don't say it.

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

This is pretty much the page I'm on. Because I've seen some totally worthless threads recently, I've seen some hardcore thread drift, and I've seen some non-sequiter trolls in threads, and I'm not sure if all of the above are seen as the problem, or just some.

Take a look at many of your recent posts. I would classify many of them as short, choppy, and difficult to read.