An open question for the tournament organizers and div officers in New Jersey

[Mauler]

Getting rid of the guy who says "no, I'm sorry, you waved your point around and that confused your opponent, so I can't award a touch" will help bring quality refereeing back to the division, though

No, he's not from NJ. NJ division, however, does have a regular who's just as scary. But they are not exactly in the position to pick and choose who they get. Or at least they weren't.

[Mauler]

Nope, he's in HB, though I've nbever seen him hired as a dedicated ref, and after he called passing on the front knees of two fencers at an RIT event, I can say that he's done reffing here as well.

I take an offense to that individual being referred to as a "ref."

[RITFencing]

No, he's not from NJ. NJ division, however, does have a regular referee who's just as scary. But they are not exactly in the position to pick and choose who they get.

Would you care to PM me and tell me which one? I want to be prepared for that high school team I'm coaching.

[RITFencing]

I take an offense to that individual being referred to as a "ref."

My apologies, sir; I should have realized that to call him a ref, he would have to be human first.

I shall simply henceforth refer to him as "That gigantic tool."

[Goldgar]

Would you care to PM me and tell me which one? I want to be prepared for that high school team I'm coaching.

Ditto on that. Unless it's me.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

People who don't care about money will pay outrageous amounts for whatever. People who don't have the money to throw around will only pay up to a certain price, and then stop paying.

Ideally, what you want to do is get a lot of money from the people who will pay huge amounts, and a lesser amount from all the people who will eventually stop going.

And, wonderfully, there exists a cheap and easy way to get both-- Rep to anyone who can figure it out!!


(Hint: Think of fencing as food for your soul....)

[RITFencing]

People who don't care about money will pay outrageous amounts for whatever. People who don't have the money to throw around will only pay up to a certain price, and then stop paying.

Ideally, what you want to do is get a lot of money from the people who will pay huge amounts, and a lesser amount from all the people who will eventually stop going.

And, wonderfully, there exists a cheap and easy way to get both-- Rep to anyone who can figure it out!!


(Hint: Think of fencing as food for your soul....)

I am NOT tithing to fencing clubs.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I am NOT tithing to fencing clubs.

Wrong Direction.


Although............




But, uh, yeah. Just think about fencing as food, then.

[RITFencing]

If the government offers fencing stamps, I think I just might be poor enough to qualify.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

If the government offers fencing stamps, I think I just might be poor enough to qualify.

Close enough. (well, kind of.. in a way..... Ok, not really, but I'm bored.)

Coupons.

It's easy to save on food--- If you're willing to look for sales, clip coupons, and only buy things when they're on sale. Coupons mean that people who consider money plentiful won't bother to spend the time clipping coupons--- and people who can't afford to spend all the money in the world will spend the time.

If you have to mail in a form, or prereg on Fred, or email an individual before showing up to pay $10, but if you just show up you pay $20, the people who can afford the extra money will self-select into paying it.

The same goes for deposits--- If you need the extra $5 for dinner, you keep score, or throw out some bottles. If daddy wants to go home so he can hop into the hot tub full of imported water from Greece, you don't bother.

These both already exist, but could be expanded-- Larger deposits, Always collecting deposits, having Pre-reg discounts for more than just qualifiers, or new suggestions--

If every division member were given a certain number of "discount coupons" at the begining of the year, then the people who remembered to bring them would get to fence for not as much money. Or if you had to mail a division officer a SASE to get your coupons.... Or you had to do a little something extra at a tournament (for example, anyone who helps direct at a self-directed tournament shouldn't get a waiver, but this kind of coupon might be appropriate.



NO problem at all with getting lots of money from the rich parents..... As long as we keep the possibilites for the college students and the just-out-of college students open......

[RITFencing]

A similar situation often exists where preregistered people get the regular entry price and those who show up pay more because they provide extra stress the organizers couldn't plan for... but even that is out of hand. Here's a quote from FRED:

Fees are $30 if you preregister (no refunds, except for tournament cancellation), $50 at the door.
Checks or cash only accepted at the door.

[jeff]

Ditto on that. Unless it's me.

I'll vouch for your directing - and hope they don't mean me, either!

Which reminds me, it's almost time for the annual phone call asking me to direct HS events (which pay pretty decently). It's really inconvenient, and I'd like to increase my ratio of "time actually fencing vs. time doing other things related to fencing". Anyone interested in Bergen County HS events please PM me your contact info, and I'll happily give it to the ref coordinator.

[RITFencing]

I'd love to, Jeff, but I'll be coaching Hunterdon Central. Actually, since it's north Jersey, why don't you shoot Justin Meehan a line? He'll drive far to ref or fence, and he's better than pretty much any high school ref I've watched.

[jeff]

Good idea.

Which reminds me of yet another thing: a while ago they talked about requiring CPR certification for each ref! How's that for an added responsibility!

[MyrddinsPrecint]

A similar situation often exists where preregistered people get the regular entry price and those who show up pay more because they provide extra stress the organizers couldn't plan for... but even that is out of hand. Here's a quote from FRED:

it's all in the marketing...

"penalty" vs. "discount"

[counter riposte]

I'll vouch for your directing - and hope they don't mean me, either!

No... He's talking about the other one that people get confused with him.

[RITFencing]

it's all in the marketing...

"penalty" vs. "discount"

Still costs the same though...

You can put a little bow tie on a dog turd... but it's still a dog turd.

[Mauler]

Jeff, Goldgar, you guys are safe. As for Counter Riposte.... well......

[rsy]

In NJ there are events run by the Division and club events that the Division only sanctions but does not run. The fees at club events are set by the clubs and I do not believe that the Division has a minimum fee that it requires the clubs to charge for these events. The Division does have the right to charge the clubs $5 per fencer for sanctioned events, but it waived those fees last year and maybe the year before that, and will probably waive them again this year.

The $100 sanction for late registration was not a good idea and was removed fairly quickly. However, pre-registration is to be encouraged because it speeds the running of the larger tournaments and I understand that the Division would like to move this function entirley into AskFred for all Division run events. That would mean no more paper pre-registrations, only online. To encourage this, the Division charges less for a pre-registration (that doesn't mean pre-payment, just pre-registration) than a walk-in who registers at the event. The only other alternative would be to require pre-registration and not allow walk-ins at all.

The Division events are the Fall Festivals of Fencing, the JO and SN qualifiers, the Denise O'Conner, and the Division Championships. I think the Division runs the Garden State Games for the state, but it is not a Division event per se. The rest of the many events in NJ are club events and if you think the club is overcharging and/or providing poor service, then tell them and vote with your wallet.

-r

[RITFencing]

I both understand and condone charging more for walk ins. However, the preregister price alone is ridiculous.