08-01-2006, 02:50 PM
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#41 | | Friend of Fencing
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Being helpful in Breeland
Posts: 863
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Originally Posted by telkanuru Getting rid of the guy who says "no, I'm sorry, you waved your point around and that confused your opponent, so I can't award a touch" will help bring quality refereeing back to the division, though  | No, he's not from NJ. NJ division, however, does have a regular who's just as scary.  But they are not exactly in the position to pick and choose who they get. Or at least they weren't.
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"Presidente of the Jury must consider the artistry and finesse of a foilist's attaque. He must also make it a pointe to deteste the hideousness of unwashed heathen who insists upon marching forwarde with his arm bent in a grotesque manner."
- Maitre Somme R'andome Douchebach
Last edited by Mauler; 08-01-2006 at 02:55 PM.
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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08-01-2006, 02:51 PM
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#42 | | Friend of Fencing
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Being helpful in Breeland
Posts: 863
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Originally Posted by RITFencing Nope, he's in HB, though I've nbever seen him hired as a dedicated ref, and after he called passing on the front knees of two fencers at an RIT event, I can say that he's done reffing here as well. | I take an offense to that individual being referred to as a "ref."
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"Presidente of the Jury must consider the artistry and finesse of a foilist's attaque. He must also make it a pointe to deteste the hideousness of unwashed heathen who insists upon marching forwarde with his arm bent in a grotesque manner."
- Maitre Somme R'andome Douchebach | |
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08-01-2006, 02:51 PM
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#43 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,639
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Originally Posted by Mauler No, he's not from NJ. NJ division, however, does have a regular referee who's just as scary. But they are not exactly in the position to pick and choose who they get. | Would you care to PM me and tell me which one? I want to be prepared for that high school team I'm coaching.
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"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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08-01-2006, 02:52 PM
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#44 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,639
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Originally Posted by Mauler I take an offense to that individual being referred to as a "ref." | My apologies, sir; I should have realized that to call him a ref, he would have to be human first.
I shall simply henceforth refer to him as "That gigantic tool."
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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08-01-2006, 03:06 PM
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#45 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 991
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Originally Posted by RITFencing Would you care to PM me and tell me which one? I want to be prepared for that high school team I'm coaching. | Ditto on that. Unless it's me. | |
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08-01-2006, 03:36 PM
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#46 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,403
| People who don't care about money will pay outrageous amounts for whatever. People who don't have the money to throw around will only pay up to a certain price, and then stop paying.
Ideally, what you want to do is get a lot of money from the people who will pay huge amounts, and a lesser amount from all the people who will eventually stop going.
And, wonderfully, there exists a cheap and easy way to get both-- Rep to anyone who can figure it out!!
(Hint: Think of fencing as food for your soul....)
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Visit my non-fencing blog, mostly about food, at Coset The Table!
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08-01-2006, 03:38 PM
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#47 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,639
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Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint People who don't care about money will pay outrageous amounts for whatever. People who don't have the money to throw around will only pay up to a certain price, and then stop paying.
Ideally, what you want to do is get a lot of money from the people who will pay huge amounts, and a lesser amount from all the people who will eventually stop going.
And, wonderfully, there exists a cheap and easy way to get both-- Rep to anyone who can figure it out!!
(Hint: Think of fencing as food for your soul....) | I am NOT tithing to fencing clubs.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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08-01-2006, 03:53 PM
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#48 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,403
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Originally Posted by RITFencing I am NOT tithing to fencing clubs. | Wrong Direction.
Although............
But, uh, yeah. Just think about fencing as food, then.
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Visit my non-fencing blog, mostly about food, at Coset The Table!
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08-01-2006, 03:55 PM
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#49 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,639
| If the government offers fencing stamps, I think I just might be poor enough to qualify.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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08-01-2006, 04:07 PM
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#50 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,403
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Originally Posted by RITFencing If the government offers fencing stamps, I think I just might be poor enough to qualify. |
Close enough. (well, kind of.. in a way..... Ok, not really, but I'm bored.) Coupons.
It's easy to save on food--- If you're willing to look for sales, clip coupons, and only buy things when they're on sale. Coupons mean that people who consider money plentiful won't bother to spend the time clipping coupons--- and people who can't afford to spend all the money in the world will spend the time.
If you have to mail in a form, or prereg on Fred, or email an individual before showing up to pay $10, but if you just show up you pay $20, the people who can afford the extra money will self-select into paying it.
The same goes for deposits--- If you need the extra $5 for dinner, you keep score, or throw out some bottles. If daddy wants to go home so he can hop into the hot tub full of imported water from Greece, you don't bother.
These both already exist, but could be expanded-- Larger deposits, Always collecting deposits, having Pre-reg discounts for more than just qualifiers, or new suggestions--
If every division member were given a certain number of "discount coupons" at the begining of the year, then the people who remembered to bring them would get to fence for not as much money. Or if you had to mail a division officer a SASE to get your coupons.... Or you had to do a little something extra at a tournament (for example, anyone who helps direct at a self-directed tournament shouldn't get a waiver, but this kind of coupon might be appropriate.
NO problem at all with getting lots of money from the rich parents..... As long as we keep the possibilites for the college students and the just-out-of college students open......
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Visit my non-fencing blog, mostly about food, at Coset The Table!
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08-01-2006, 04:13 PM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,639
| A similar situation often exists where preregistered people get the regular entry price and those who show up pay more because they provide extra stress the organizers couldn't plan for... but even that is out of hand. Here's a quote from FRED: Quote: |
Originally Posted by Upcoming NJFA Event Fees are $30 if you preregister (no refunds, except for tournament cancellation), $50 at the door.
Checks or cash only accepted at the door. |
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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08-01-2006, 04:16 PM
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#52 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,070
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Originally Posted by Goldgar Ditto on that. Unless it's me. | I'll vouch for your directing - and hope they don't mean me, either! 
Which reminds me, it's almost time for the annual phone call asking me to direct HS events (which pay pretty decently). It's really inconvenient, and I'd like to increase my ratio of "time actually fencing vs. time doing other things related to fencing". Anyone interested in Bergen County HS events please PM me your contact info, and I'll happily give it to the ref coordinator.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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08-01-2006, 04:19 PM
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#53 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,639
| I'd love to, Jeff, but I'll be coaching Hunterdon Central. Actually, since it's north Jersey, why don't you shoot Justin Meehan a line? He'll drive far to ref or fence, and he's better than pretty much any high school ref I've watched.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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08-01-2006, 04:24 PM
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#54 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,070
| Good idea.
Which reminds me of yet another thing: a while ago they talked about requiring CPR certification for each ref! How's that for an added responsibility!
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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08-01-2006, 04:29 PM
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#55 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003 Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,403
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Originally Posted by RITFencing A similar situation often exists where preregistered people get the regular entry price and those who show up pay more because they provide extra stress the organizers couldn't plan for... but even that is out of hand. Here's a quote from FRED: |
it's all in the marketing...
"penalty" vs. "discount"
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Visit my non-fencing blog, mostly about food, at Coset The Table!
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08-01-2006, 05:05 PM
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#56 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: 40D 34' 7.046" N by 74D 26' 23.503" W
Posts: 765
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Originally Posted by jeff I'll vouch for your directing - and hope they don't mean me, either! | No... He's talking about the other one that people get confused with him.
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Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.
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08-01-2006, 05:13 PM
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#57 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,639
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Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint it's all in the marketing...
"penalty" vs. "discount" | Still costs the same though...
You can put a little bow tie on a dog turd... but it's still a dog turd.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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08-01-2006, 05:37 PM
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#58 | | Friend of Fencing
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Being helpful in Breeland
Posts: 863
| Jeff, Goldgar, you guys are safe. As for Counter Riposte.... well...... 
__________________
"Presidente of the Jury must consider the artistry and finesse of a foilist's attaque. He must also make it a pointe to deteste the hideousness of unwashed heathen who insists upon marching forwarde with his arm bent in a grotesque manner."
- Maitre Somme R'andome Douchebach
Last edited by Mauler; 08-01-2006 at 05:48 PM.
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08-01-2006, 06:39 PM
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#59 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NJ
Posts: 364
| In NJ there are events run by the Division and club events that the Division only sanctions but does not run. The fees at club events are set by the clubs and I do not believe that the Division has a minimum fee that it requires the clubs to charge for these events. The Division does have the right to charge the clubs $5 per fencer for sanctioned events, but it waived those fees last year and maybe the year before that, and will probably waive them again this year.
The $100 sanction for late registration was not a good idea and was removed fairly quickly. However, pre-registration is to be encouraged because it speeds the running of the larger tournaments and I understand that the Division would like to move this function entirley into AskFred for all Division run events. That would mean no more paper pre-registrations, only online. To encourage this, the Division charges less for a pre-registration (that doesn't mean pre-payment, just pre-registration) than a walk-in who registers at the event. The only other alternative would be to require pre-registration and not allow walk-ins at all.
The Division events are the Fall Festivals of Fencing, the JO and SN qualifiers, the Denise O'Conner, and the Division Championships. I think the Division runs the Garden State Games for the state, but it is not a Division event per se. The rest of the many events in NJ are club events and if you think the club is overchar | |
