Division tournaments: cost?

[seak]

How much does your division charge for division tournaments?

Do they hire rated refs for all three weapons?

How many division tournaments a year do they hold?

Your answers will be appreciated, thanks

[seak]

Oh yeah and if you can say what division you're from that would cool thanks

[Peach]

Keep in mind that most divisions have not published next year's schedule yet, and that I am not a division officer. Here is the Philadelphia Division schedule if you want to count.
Cost $20-25 depending.
We do not always hire rated referees. It depends on the event, though last year I think we almost always had paid referees. We definitely do for qualifiers

[seak]

past performance indicates future results?

So does the division itself run all these tournaments (set fees, hire refs, pay FAP for hosting etc) or are these events run by the clubs within the division?

[brtech]

Western PA Division sanctions around 15 events per year. Varies a lot, because any club can hold an event and have it Division sanctioned if they follow the rules. A lot of them are 2 day events with different weapons on different days.

At most, but not all, Division sanctioned events, there are paid refs and paid armorer. Ratings are not required, but common.

Events typically cost $20.

[oiuyt]

Philadelphia: $20 (going up to $25 this season?). An event most weekends, frequently only a single weapon. Space considerations limit the schedule. Many events have a mix between self-reffing and hired refs.

New England: $10, qualifiers are $10 reg + $10/event, other events (PdT) can be more. Events every weekend in most, if not all, weapons. Open events ~once/month in all weapons. Hired refs for opens and qualifiers (the former still sometimes has some self-reffed pools, depending on referee availability).

Connecticut: $10, special events (Turkey Stab, etc.) can be more ($20-25). Events most weekends, generally in all weapons. IIRC, mostly hired refs for everything.

-B

[qatet]

So does the division itself run all these tournaments (set fees, hire refs, pay FAP for hosting etc) or are these events run by the clubs within the division?

Division sets fees. Host venue provides staff for the event, and that staff sorts out the pay. Off the top, a set percentage goes to the division. If there are paid refs, they are paid next, and the surplus is split between the person running the event and the host venue. If there are no paid refs, then the money left after the division takes its cut is split between the person running the event and the host club. It's a pretty strong incentive to both ref and run the event, since you then get paid for both parts. Refs for events at FAP are often drawn from the ranks of FAP staff, since we divvy up the workload each week at our staff meetings.

[IU_Epee]

Indiana: $20 entry fee per weapon, 3 tournaments a year. All the refs are paid, but I don't believe they are all rated.

[DJ Apostrophe]

New England: $10, qualifiers are $10 reg + $10/event, other events (PdT) can be more. Events every weekend in most, if not all, weapons. Open events ~once/month in all weapons. Hired refs for opens and qualifiers (the former still sometimes has some self-reffed pools, depending on referee availability).

Just as a point of fact... starting this season (05-06), the division has been hiring referees for all other tournaments as well (pay is 1/2 of the open / qualifier pay)...

-w

[oiuyt]

Just as a point of fact... starting this season (05-06), the division has been hiring referees for all other tournaments as well (pay is 1/2 of the open / qualifier pay)...

Correction noted. For the past couple of seasons I'm rarely in NE Div except for opens.

-B

[Jay Kominek]

This year, Colorado division will be $20/first event, $15/all others. Refs will have to have a ref rating, or D (or higher) in the relevent weapon. A through D nets you $40. Refs rated 6-10 will take home $60, 5's get $75, and 1-4 gets $100, IIRC. The division will be sanctioning about 15 tournaments this year. (The calendar isn't set, so we'll see what changes.) Hosting club provides some unpaid body to sit there and use the punch on masks; that is the extent of the armory testing.

(edited to change number of events. i forgot youth stuff.)

[edew]

Bay Area tournaments are 1ATM. Most Bay Area tournaments are part of the Bay Cup, and there are 169 or so events this year (same as last year), running the gamut from veteran events to Y10 events in various weapons and sex-separated or mixed events. Almost all have hired referees (this year, we will require events to have hired referees with at least some percentage of the referees from outside the host club: too many shenanigans as you could imagine when referees are all from the host club). The few instances of not having hired referees, or not enough hired referees, from past seasons will cost the host club funds and loss of hosting privileges.

Division events are also $20.

There is, supposedly, a registration fee included in the Bay Cup events, although it's not clear how that will be charged.

In most events, referees are paid $80-100, independent of referee rating. We know that there are many capable people who can properly referee, but don't have ratings, and those who can't referee (regardless of rating), we just don't hire them. Host club is responsible for hiring the referees.

Host club gets all money and, depending on how the financial arrangements are done this year, the Bay Cup reimburses the clubs for up to 50% of the referee fees. Bay Cup provides the medals, but host clubs are encouraged to offer additional prizes like t-shirts or doo-dads as prizes (usually very cool with youth fencers).

[KD5MDK]

1atm?

[DJ Apostrophe]

1atm = $20 ... the standard disbursement increment from those magical machines...

-w

[oiuyt]

Host club gets all money and, depending on how the financial arrangements are done this year, the Bay Cup reimburses the clubs for up to 50% of the referee fees.

Host club gets all of the money.

Which means the Bay Cup doesn't get any of the money.

Yet somehow they can reimburse referee fees.

Even if "all" of the money doesn't include a season registration fee, that fee would have to be fairly significant to cover half of referee costs.

Something's wrong with the math here.

-B

[fencerX]

Divisions shouldn't be in the business of specifying entry fees for (non qualifier) events held by clubs or any other business or organization in their areas. Some divisions and sections realize the peril they'd put themselves in if they engage in price-fixing, but not all seem to understand.

Setting certain minimum standards for a division to sanction an event (e.g. rated refs are required) is one thing, but a division should not mandate a "standard" or maximum price for entries.

[Wafath]

Divisions shouldn't be in the business of specifying entry fees for (non qualifier) events held by clubs or any other business or organization in their areas. Some divisions and sections realize the peril they'd put themselves in if they engage in price-fixing, but not all seem to understand.

Setting certain minimum standards for a division to sanction an event (e.g. rated refs are required) is one thing, but a division should not mandate a "standard" or maximum price for entries.

1) Some divisions host more than just qualifiers. Good fencing competitions are in everyone's interest, and sometimes the division can do what an individual club can not. Local politics, attitude of the division, geography, the price of tea in china, etc, etc, etc.

2) It may be interesting to hear about divisions that set prices for club sponsored events, but that isn't what we are talking about here.

3) What prices the division sets for its events will influence what clubs will charge. And vice versa.

W

[CvilleFencer]

Divisions shouldn't be in the business of specifying entry fees for (non qualifier) events held by clubs or any other business or organization in their areas. Some divisions and sections realize the peril they'd put themselves in if they engage in price-fixing, but not all seem to understand.

Setting certain minimum standards for a division to sanction an event (e.g. rated refs are required) is one thing, but a division should not mandate a "standard" or maximum price for entries.

I think you are completely wrong here. Part of a division administrations job is to confirm that events are fair and open. If a club is setting it's own prices and knows it has 15 or so people who can and will pay $100 or some other outrageous price, they are effectively limiting the number of people who can fence. They are also probably up to other not nice things while they are at it. A division can and should ensure that fees are not used to restrict tournements to "monied elite only" events. At least until the USFA adds that to the list of catagories at summer nationals...

[RITFencing]

See my thread about New Jersey's expenses...

In Western NY, I pay about 10 dollars for an event. Sometimes 15. I don't think I've ever paid 20. I believe div qualifiers were 5 or 10 this past year. I wish RFC would host more events, they charge next to nothing.

[fencerX]

See my thread about New Jersey's expenses...

Yes, the one that addressed the NJ Division officers along with the Clubs ...

The NJ Division Officers have no business telling clubs what they can or can not charge.